Dedicated Point Blank - sync issue

[mRCaESaR]

Just wondering if there's anyone out there with a dedicated point blank machine? Mine is a Japanese cab, but I'm wondering if this is more common on other dedicated point blank cabs.

The reason I ask is because I have some weird behaviour that I'm trying to find the root cause.

The issue appears to be a sync issue



The back story of the cab is:

• Originally, this machine (point blank 2) had a Toshiba A68KJU96X01 tube and a Toei TC-A292N 3 chassis (everything was working fine except the psu which I sent for repair as it was "howling" when you turned it on. Only problem at the time was there was screen burn on the tube.
• I also had a time crisis 1 machine with a burn free tube. It had Toshiba A68KJU96X01 tube and a Toei TC-A292 chassis. I initially thought it was the same until I checked reference pics
• I swapped the frame/tube/chassis together so Point Blank would get the "burn free" tube thinking it was going to be a straight swap
• Time Crisis got sold in record time before I could test Point Blank as I had already sent the PSU off for repair (not testing was my biggest mistake and regret)
• I receive the PSU back from getting fixed and when I turned it on with the swapped tube, the image is as per the video above
• Multiple test were conducted to try and figure out a solution
  • changed PSU - no change
  • wired up the Namco EMI filter board to multiple different monitors with sync issues (Nanao MS8, MS9, Tohsiba PF PB-9929)
  • checked and confirmed continuity of Video GND goes back to the Video GND on the EMI Filter board and GND of PSU - no change
  • Rigged up a JAMMA edge on the cabinet and output the video to the monitor and worked fine with both Point Blank and Point Blank 2
  • Tested with a test pattern generator and video showed up correctly
  • Tested 2x different Namco EMI filter boards and both produced the same issue
• It was only because I found that little pcb with the inline resistor that made me "test" the inline resistor and to my surprise my video is now perfect - for point blank 2. For point Blank 1, there's a tiny bit of interference which leads me to believe the issue is still something else as you mentioned. The issue is only present if I use the Namco EMI Filter board - which is required since the cabinet is dedicated with proprietary connectors ie. not a normal JAMMA edge connector

Video of it working properly only when the resistor pcb is installed in between the game pcb and monitor



For those that has a dedicated Point Blank Cab, have you ever come across this little resistor pcb? What chassis do you have?

Front


Back


I'm not sure if there's anyone that has any information on the Toei TC-A292 or 292N 3 but on the A292, the connector has a 75Ω label on the connector which I don't believe the A292N 3 had?



I would love to have a permanent solution as I feel this is currently a band aid solution because I have interference on Point Blank 1.

If any of you have any suggestions, I'm all ears, as this machine has completely stumped me.

Thank you for taking the time to read and would love to hear your thoughts

Cheers

[nem]

Looks like the resistors are on the R, G, B lines. If you had a scope you could measure what kind of video levels the motherboards are outputting with and without the resistor board.

Is there a reason why you can't tap the video lines before the filter board? If it it displays fine without it, why not just bypass it?

Also, I'm a bit surprised the A292 would have a 75 ohm input connector. Can you take a picture of where it connects to on the chassis?

[mRCaESaR]

Looks like the resistors are on the R, G, B lines. If you had a scope you could measure what kind of video levels the motherboards are outputting with and without the resistor board.

Yeah, looks like 100ohm resistors to me. Sadly I have no scope only a good old multi meter.

Is there a reason why you can't tap the video lines before the filter board? If it it displays fine without it, why not just bypass it?

Since it's all proprietary connectors and in a cage, I'd ideally just want to keep it OEM as possible. So in theory, between 3 Point Blank games, it's just a matter of disconnecting the 3 connectors to switch amongst the 3 games.



I did think about taking the emi filter out of the equation and wire it up, but there's a significant effort to do it if I wanted to make it a zero cut mod.

Also, I'm a bit surprised the A292 would have a 75 ohm input connector. Can you take a picture of where it connects to on the chassis?

This is the best I can get



I don't really know much about termination ohms and what not, but I was told this

"if its expecting 75ohm then you prolly need some components on the RGB lines too and the resistor prolly needs to be 470 ohm, prolly the usual 75ohm resistor and 220uf cap in series with the RGB lines"

Another person mentioned "it must mean that the rgb lines out of point blank is higher voltage than what regular jamma monitors accept"

What I'm still baffled about is, Point Blank 1 still has a level of interference in game, not as bad as the first video, but a little shake here and there.

[cools]

Got another PB1 to try?

[mRCaESaR]

I've only got PB1 and PB2

[mRCaESaR]

Let's now talk Point Blank 1 and this damn stupid sync issue!

This is how I know I have sync issues when I play Point Blank

Notice how the squares aren't square?



When I use the EMI filter with the resistor pcb 'out' going to the game pcb and 'in' to the monitor, interference is crazy




When I use the EMI filter with resistor pcb but in reverse of above, the interference isn't as bad (not this is the default way I'm using it for Point Blank 2 and it's working perfectly fine)



When I use the EMI filter without the resistor pcb, I get the sync issue as expected like the first time I exhibited this issue




When I piggy back 5 wires on the jamma edge before the emi filter board without the resistor pcb, video colour settings is blown out and needs re calibrating. Still a tiny bit of interference.



You can see from the Point Blank logo that all the reds are bleeding out and colour is just not right



When I piggy back 5 wires on the jamma edge before the emi filter board with the pcb 'out' going to the game pcb and 'in' to the monitor, video was well and truly out of whack. I have no idea why, as I didn't think there was any polarity of resistors so I honestly didn't think it would affect which end had "out" and "in". You will see colour is definitely off and for some reason Green and Blue became aqua.





Last test was piggy backing the 5 wires on the jamma edge before the emi filter board with the pcb 'out' going to the monitor and 'in' to the game pcb.

I knew immediately that we had perfect sync when I went into the convergence test and saw that all the lines were squares and not jagged like in the video in the first test.



WE HAVE SUCCESS!! Perfect sync and colour!

Also managed to see the Xenon lights working. I'm not 100% sure though if this only works in attract mode or if it's supposed to work during the game as I can't seem to get it flashing during the game. This is only specifically to PB1, nothing happens in PB2



Once I confirmed the sync issue resolved, it was time to rig up the proper connectors. I'll have this pcb inside the cab, probably drill some holes in the cage to mount this straight on top so if I ever want to swap games, it's just a matter of unplugging a few connectors.



The one thing I really disliked about the Point Blank 1 pcb is how loose the gun I/O was. The issue was quickly fixed with a couple cable ties!! Voila! No more loose IO and it never feel off



Refelecting back, it's well and truely obvious that the chassis from my original Time Crisis 1 wasn't designed for this cabinet, which comes across as weird since TC1 was released in 1995 whilst PB1 was released in 1994. One would assume TC1 would have a newer revision chassis. If I can go back, I would've kept the burnt tube/chassis combo that was originally on this cab.

Either way, even though I have to piggy back the video wires on the jamma edge for PB1, I'm still OK with doing that since I can play both PB1 and PB2 in the same cab whilst still using the OEM 3x connectors. Switching games would just be a matter of unplugging 3 connectors and switching it to the next game.

I'm glad I found that little resistor PCB as there is no way in hell I would've known to use resistors on the RGB lines to figure this issue out.