Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Arcade cabinet hardware and accessories
Post Reply
User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 3rd, 2019, 1:38 am

Hi,

The ongoing saga of my Mushiking project. I might finish it one day...

Anyway, long story short - I have 2 mushiking cabs. One is running a Sega 837-13551 I/O, and I have a riverservice JAMMA thingy for JAMMA games.
The 2nd cab ispretty much empty, with just monitor & SUN PSU and is going to be a slave off the 1st cab.

I'm trying to simplify the wiring, as the AMP-UP connections are flaky, and my eyesight is **** so soldering is becoming a royal pain in the ****.

Onto the question - is it possible to link 2 I/O's? My thinking is that I can use a standard loom from the control panel to the 2P points on the I/O in the 2nd cab, and then use a longish USB cable to "slave" this I/O to the main cab, which has the link to the Naomi / Riverservice.

Or am I talking **** & just need to get the soldering iron out & build a custom loom?


Cheers
John
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1413
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by nem » March 3rd, 2019, 2:07 pm

Good question. I guess it's something you just have to try out. It would need to be supported by the RS jamma converter. I think invzim was thinking about this functionality for his jamma converter, not sure if he ever added it.

For JVS games, most fighting games seem to support linking IO boards. The second player controls are put on the 1P side of the slave IO.

Also, you need something to split audio and video from the master cab to the slave cab. Linking the two IOs will just handle the controls.

User avatar
yosai
280bpm's too slow
Posts: 3663
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 5:00 pm
Location: London
eBay: yosai

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by yosai » March 3rd, 2019, 4:12 pm

The Konami Windy 2 has JVS cab linking but I believe this is specific to the Windy JVS I/O and not a generic feature.

Here is a scan of the manual page.
ss.png

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1413
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by nem » March 3rd, 2019, 4:38 pm

It is a generic JVS feature. See here:

http://wiki.pcbotaku.com/wiki/JVS_I/O#NODE

However, it is entirely game dependent how it is used. Some games can be played in 4 player through IO linking, like Power Stone 2.

Question remains if the RS jamma converter supports it.

User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 3rd, 2019, 6:40 pm

Hmm,

I guess I'll give it a go & hopefully don't blow anything in the process.

Video is easy, either a VGA splitter for Naomi, or the riverservice has dual video / audio outs.
Audio is a single RCA lead, as the Mushi's are only mono.

Thanks
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1413
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by nem » March 4th, 2019, 10:01 am

dj_johnnyg wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 6:40 MP
the riverservice has dual video / audio outs.
To me that would kind of suggest that they might have actually incorporated it in to the feature set.

Anyway, there's no harm in trying, let us know how it goes.

User avatar
invzim
Posts: 471
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 5:26 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway
eBay: prrole

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by invzim » March 4th, 2019, 7:16 pm

nem wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 2:07 MP
Good question. I guess it's something you just have to try out. It would need to be supported by the RS jamma converter. I think invzim was thinking about this functionality for his jamma converter, not sure if he ever added it.

For JVS games, most fighting games seem to support linking IO boards. The second player controls are put on the 1P side of the slave IO.

Also, you need something to split audio and video from the master cab to the slave cab. Linking the two IOs will just handle the controls.
It's implemented, https://irkenlabs.com/jammafier/cabinet-linking
I make and sell cool Arcade stuff, check out https://irkenlabs.com/ - In The Name of Science!

User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 13th, 2019, 11:48 pm

So good news & not so good news.

I setup a 2nd I/O as the last in a chain, so Naomi > "Main I/O" > "Slave I/O"
I'm turning the slave cab on 1st (to power the I/O) and then the main cab. Only have 2 buttons (Start & Fire) rigged up on the slave cab, as can't find my JVS>Control Panel loom.

Fired up CvSNK 2, and with the controls rigged to P1 on both I/Os, working as expected.

Connected up Bomberman PCB via the Riverservice, and both cabinets control Player 1.
Swapped the cables so "Slave" is running as P2, and JAMMA works as expected.

Re-Tested with CvSNK 2, and no P2 controls.

I may be doing something dumb, but I'm guessing although the Riverservice will accept inputs from a linked I/O, it needs the controls on the P2 side to work.

Unless anyone more clever than me has any bright ideas, I think my best option is to have 2 AMP U-P connectors in the cab, for P1 and P2, and simply swap the CP connector depending on if it's JAMMA or JVS.

Cheers
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

User avatar
invzim
Posts: 471
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 5:26 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway
eBay: prrole

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by invzim » March 14th, 2019, 7:07 am

Sorry to hijack thread, but to avoid confusion as the Jammafier was mentioned I should mention the jammafier (not riverservice) link logic:

Player 1 inputs on secondary cabinet will be player 2 on primary cabinet.
Player 2 inputs on both cabinets are ignored.
Primary and secondary non-player input will be merged, i.e coin1 on secondary will be coin1 on Jamma edge.
I make and sell cool Arcade stuff, check out https://irkenlabs.com/ - In The Name of Science!

User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 14th, 2019, 10:54 pm

Thanks for that. Shame Riverservice didn't think to do the same thing :mad:

Can't find my other 60-pin loom, so looks like a weekend of crimping & soldering for me :awe:

Anyone used a VGA splitter box for 15k signals? I'm assuming they just split & amplify the input signal, or will it only work with 31k?
Don't want to waste my cash on something that may or may not work. I've previously just made a Y cable for the video, but the 2nd monitor picture was really dull.
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 21st, 2019, 10:02 pm

OK,
Managed to borrow a VGA splitter from work, and can confirm it won't work with the Naomi set to 15k. Might just be the brand be have (ATEC), but I suspect it's not locking to the signal correctly.
Off to find a DB-15 Y-splitter cable today, and just **** around with the monitor settings to get a decent picture.
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 22nd, 2019, 4:04 am

So, success with the VGA "Y" cable. Picture is good on both monitors which is nice.

Now I find out I have a load of the I/O connectors, but no pins :mad: :mad: so going to have to butcher a loom or 2 to get something working.
Part of that involves working out which is the P1 Analogue connector (white or Orange), so fire up Monkey Ball to check, and nothing is firing up!
PSU is working, Naomi is working, so assume there must be a short of some sort so the PSU is not firing up.

Honestly, I'm getting too old for this **** :awe: I can't read the numbers on the connectors anymore, and had to use a 1150 lumen LED to see the pots on the monitor to adjust them.
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 24th, 2019, 12:04 am

OK.
It's only taken me the best part of 11 years, but I fnally have the Mushiking cabs linked & working. :awe:

One issue I have now discovered is that I seem to have a stuck input on the P2 side of the slave I/O :mad: The Joystck Down input is stuck at 1 regardless of if there is a cable connected to the CP or not.
Is there any way to "unstick" this line, or is the I/O suffering a fault?

If it is, I guess I can swap the I/Os between the cabs, since the main cab will always be running P1 controls, the slave needs to change between P1 and P2 for JVS and JAMMA games.

Any ideas before I start the transplant?

Cheers

John

(Piccys when I get the cabs in a condition fit enough)
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551 - Updated 24/3

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 24th, 2019, 4:43 am

Well swapping the I/O's made no difference, as the riverservice obviously see's the P2 controls regardless of which IO is where.

So I'm looking at fixing the stuck pin on the IO - anyone tried this before?
Can't find any hardware specs on the IO online, but I'm wondering if the bank of ICs near the 40-pin digital connector are some sort of resistor banks, and maybe ones gone titsup.

I would just buy another one, but cash is tight (oh the Joys of living in Auckland) and availability of parts isn't that common here, so I need to try give this a go.

The cabs obviously hate me, I managed to get a nice belt off the rear of the AC connector this afternoon, so I'm quite happy to cause them pain by attempting a repair on the IO.
Will grab some test equipment from work tomorrow (especially the PAT tester! :awe:) to see if I can work out what's going on, but any advice appreciated.
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 24th, 2019, 10:52 pm

So had a bit of a prod around, but not much to tell while it's not powered on.
I'm suspecting that the opto-coupler is duff, but will need to test that while I've got power going through the I/O and see what the other pins are up to under "normal" operation.

At this point (assuming the opto is the issue) not sure if I sould modify the I/O to use one of the unused opto-couplers, or just bypass altogether.

As a side note, and since I have access to x-ray & direct digital radiography, thought I may as well zap the I/O to better visualise the traces :awe:
JVS_IO.jpeg
60kV / 20mAs / 0.6mm @100cm
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1413
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by nem » March 25th, 2019, 10:47 am

dj_johnnyg wrote:
March 24th, 2019, 10:52 MP
As a side note, and since I have access to x-ray & direct digital radiography, thought I may as well zap the I/O to better visualise the traces :awe:

JVS_IO.jpeg

60kV / 20mAs / 0.6mm @100cm
That's pretty awesome.

User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 25th, 2019, 9:28 pm

OK,
Now I am totally confused :eh:

I've tried a quick & dirty fix on the IO with the stuck P2 down input, by cutting the trace out of the Opto-isolator. In the JVS test, I now see the input is at 0, and the P1 inputs test fine on both JVS nodes.

What is confusing the hell out of me now is that when I move the slave IO controls to the P2 side (for JAMMA) the down input is stuck low.

In the JVS test, each IO works independently of the other, so why would cutting the trace on the 1st IO stop the 2nd from working?

Next step is to run a wire between the connector and the "far" side of the cut trace and see if that resolves it.
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

User avatar
dj_johnnyg
Loves CAVE
Posts: 730
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 5:53 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Linking Sega JVS I/O 837-13551

Post by dj_johnnyg » March 26th, 2019, 12:03 am

SUCCESS!!!! :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe:

I would like to take this opportunity to announce my nomination for knobhead of the year.

So, I've been scratching my head as to why after bypassing the P2 Down input on the Faulty I/O was stopping the same input on the good I/O from registering. I've spent the best part of 3 hours soldering what seems like HT cable compared to the tiny SMD legs I was aiming for, using the only soldering tip I have, which is **** huge. Then it turns out, the "down" pin on the loom in the slave cab wasn't clicked in properly, so I've been chasing a none-existant fault :mad:

The faulty I/O is now "fixed", basically by bypassing the opto completely. I'm not sure the risks of running the input without isolation, but since the P2 input on this IO will only be used if I ever put Mushiking back into the cab, I'll take the chance for now.

Right, back downstairs to tidy up the cabling & get the monitors tweaked...

Oh, another lesson learnt today, if you are running 2 I/Os as I am, if the 2nd cab is cabled up, but not powered on, you'll get an IO not found error. Another "fault" I spent a good while chasing before I realised the other cab was off :palm:
Snakes: They're like bits of rope, only angrier.

Post Reply