Inside of a Ridge Racer 5 Box & Discussion on rigging

[subbie]

so you got a ridge racer 5 working with a logitech force ex wheel.

Nice hack, would love to see how you connected up everything and a youtube video of the game playing.

Purplec

Yep. I will do that in good time. There is still much to hack/rig (like buttons) and I need to make a resistor to reduce the voltage applied to the motor. Plus I still need to try the next step which is getting this done with a 246c PCB & stock JVS IO. So I can scale down the size needed to set it up for playing.

Once it's all done I'll make a new topic in the Gallery section with all the info (and some video) so someone else can easily build the same setup.

[purplec]

Are you using the buttons on the namco wheel.

[subbie]

Are you using the buttons on the namco wheel.

You mean the Logitech wheel? I plan to when I get that far.

I haven't quite worked out what I will do for mapping yet.

[purplec]

So you are using the logitech wheels USB plugged in to the namco board. What happens when you press a button in the test menu do you get anything on the screen.


You could try modding a wheel like in the link below

http://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13444


post a few more pics mate looks interesting. What's next wangan

[subbie]

So you are using the logitech wheels USB plugged in to the namco board. What happens when you press a button in the test menu do you get anything on the screen.

That's not what I'm doing. Sadly I forgot to get a picture of the wiring after I had it working. the USB like port on a arcade unit is not USB at all. So plugging a USB controller in wont work. Right now my RR5 is using a JVS IO integrated into the case. From there a wire goes to the Motor PCB which from there I have the Motor wires & Wheel Analog wires going to my Logitech wheel (directly to the parts them selves). I'll try to get pictures of this once I crack open the wheel again to do more work.

You could try modding a wheel like in the link below

http://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13444

post a few more pics mate looks interesting.

Me and that guy are trying to do the reverse. He is using the PCB inside of his wheel to rig up arcade Racing hardware to use on a console. I'm using the parts inside the Logitech wheel to rig to run on arcade hardware. The reason being is I want to be able to play Ridge Racer V at home with out needing a full racing cab or a massive pile of complicated arcade hardware. The smallest I make this the longer I'll be able to keep it with out my wife on my case to sell it.

Like I said in my last post, I'll post more pictures as I make more progress. I just got started with tinkering with this stuff over the weekend. Now I need a few more parts so I can finish off the controller.

What's next wangan

I'm not done yet. Net project after this depends on what parts I get my hands on. I have 3 other games I want to get working. 1) Wangan Midnight, 2) Battle Gear 3 Tuned, 3) Touch Panel Namco games (Like Druaga Online). I have the software side to all 3, I mostly am stuck waiting on parts.

[uncletom]

Nice job there. You did start a game and played? You should try. Thing is, that if the STR doesn't 'like' your new wheel it will spit an error message on you in the middle of a game.

Oh yes. The STR board works nicely with all my Force Feedback wheels, I've got the GTI Club original that has a 24VDC motor, and another that looks like Happ which uses a 20VDC motor, and a regular Happ with a 90VDC motor. All three motors are about the same size so I guess it's OK, and the Ampere ratings should be similar.

And yes, I've also wondered about those DIP switches. It may very well be the power of the feedback.

[subbie]

Nice job there. You did start a game and played? You should try. Thing is, that if the STR doesn't 'like' your new wheel it will spit an error message on you in the middle of a game.

I tried to start a race but as I said the motor wigged out (it tried applying too much force on the wheel making it hard to keep center or apply a reasonable force). I did let it go as far as a start of a race and it still ran but I didn't let it go farther since I was worried I might break the motor.

Oh yes. The STR board works nicely with all my Force Feedback wheels, I've got the GTI Club original that has a 24VDC motor, and another that looks like Happ which uses a 20VDC motor, and a regular Happ with a 90VDC motor. All three motors are about the same size so I guess it's OK, and the Ampere ratings should be similar.

The 24v or 20v motor. Where they rather large? Wonder why yours took a smaller motor fine and mine is pushing the motor too much.

And yes, I've also wondered about those DIP switches. It may very well be the power of the feedback.

What are yours set to? All 4 of mine are in 1 direction (forgot if that is on or off). I'll maybe try to play around with them a bit to see if they have an effect. If one can turn the motor down that would be fantastic. If not i'm going to have to rig in some resistors to damper the voltage.

[uncletom]

Wow! Battle Gear 3? Do you have the IO-pcb for it? Could you take a good picture of that for me, please?

[subbie]

Did you ever run the init system in the service menu after changing motors? Maybe I need to run this to let it make corrections for my rig.

Wow! Battle Gear 3? Do you have the IO-pcb for it? Could you take a good picture of that for me, please?

I don't know. I bought BG3 tuned off yahoo and I'm waiting for it to come in. Far as I know I only got the game in a 246c but... recent talks with my proxy have me confused over issues of a heavy jvs pcb. Either he is mistaken and its the 246 or maybe by some slim chance I got sent one with the pcb (I really really really doubt it).

[subbie]

Ignore my last post on Battle Gear 3 JVS. My proxy was confused and it was just the 246c he was looking at. (Still on the hunt for one, asked a few arcade stores in japan if they can get one from taito).

Well tonight I decided to toy around with things a bit. Few points

* I played with the SW2 settings. All of mine are set to off. Here is what I got from them
1) Turns wheel left, right, then left hard and holds there. I think it's trying to test the wheel on start
2) ?? No effect from what I see. Game Boots and runs (there is still full feedback)
3) turns the wheel a bit, then does nothing for a while before hitting a motor 20 error
4) same as 4

I tried the above with wangan but the results where about the same. I notice I can get into the game's service mode but I still can't get past the intro. I wonder if the game expects 2 cabs and locks up waiting for the other. Would never be able to verify this with out getting my hands on a real cab for a few hours. =(

* I plugged in my volt meter and watched what values where coming out when you start a game. Holly crap no wonder my controller wigs out. It causes a bit of a shake by throwing 11v +/- at the controller. When I try to turn the wheel to apply some force it in turn starts quickly ramping up to 40v-50v and from there the force is too much and I cant turn the wheel any more with out breaking something. I definitely will need to damper the voltage by a factor of 10. =/ Other then that the game holds and the race starts and cars take off and I slowly roll due to the petals not being plugged in (so floating analog lines).

[uncletom]

Ok. I understand about the starting a game thing. The motor is too sensitive (a wild little thing). Some sort of larger power-resistor would be necessary here.


"The 24v or 20v motor. Where they rather large? Wonder why yours took a smaller motor fine and mine is pushing the motor too much."
- Well, .. my motors are all the same size actually. Just have different Volt specs. Here's the GTI Club motor:



And here is one of my two Happ motors. This one was from a Cruisin I think.


And here's my other Happ Motor, from a Arctic Thunder (I think). Got them both from ebay.

[uncletom]

As you can see they are all about the same size. I don't think it's so much about the voltge as the current ratings. You logitec motor is small, thus more sensitive. Happ's and Konami's industrial motors are larger and are surely less sensitive. But what puzzles me is that I didn't feel any notable difference when testing my RRV set with Konami's 24VDCmotor, and Happs 90VDC motor... Come to think of it, now I can't remember if I tested my RRV with the 90V type or the 20V type, both are Happ. I know I got the 20V type from ebay before the 90V motor. Now I am not certain wether I did at all tested RRV with the 90V motor, or not... Damn.

Nevertheless, RRV functions well with Konami's force feedback mech, and the Happ 20VDC mech. And I didn't experience it to be too powerfull or sensitive. Also worth mentioning is that I never mounted the wheel on the shaft due to placing the mech on my chair. So I always handled it by it's hub/("boss") with one hand quite easily when turning. Although I drove like a drunk ofcourse.

The DIPs on the STR board are all set to OFF position, on my board. I haven't experimented with them at all.

"Did you ever run the init system in the service menu after changing motors? "

- Yes. I did enter the calilbration /Initialze controls, where you get to turn the wheel from max to min, also gas & brake max to min, to set the pot ranges for the game to adapt to the controls. It doesn't 'feel' the motor here, only the pot ranges of the analog inputs.


...

[uncletom]

"BG3 tuned" - Fingers crossed that you manage to collect a complete kit in time. And then please take some nice shots for me. I *think* I love that game, from what little I've seen of it.

(DIP-switches on STR board) - Good job again.

(Wangan) " I notice I can get into the game's service mode but I still can't get past the intro."
- Yes. Same here. I think we have the wrong version of the STR-board. Game boots, and plays the first movie, but the it goes just black.


"When I try to turn the wheel to apply some force it in turn starts quickly ramping up to 40v-50v..."
- I see. Well then we could assume that the original steering wheel mech for RRV uses a 90V motor, perhaps the exact same type as used in Cruisin games.

What kind of multimeter are you using? Digital or analog? The digital type isn't really an optimal tool when measuring quick changes. It has a long delay. In this case one would best use some old analog instrument, or just a scope. Still, it's good to see your readings. Thank you.

I also think that you've tought me a lesson here, I will only use my 90VDC mech for RRV from now on. I am sure that my 20, and 24 VDC motors don't like the 50V bursts. I could damage something.

[uncletom]

For our info, I'd like to conclude the characteristics of my three DC-motors:

Konami (GTI Club 1997) Motor brand "Dunkermotoren"
Voltage: 24V
rpm: 3300
I n (nominal current I suppose): 2,70 A
I fm: ("Demagnetization Current" (!?)): 24.0 A

Happ (Cruisin) Motor brand RAE Corp.
Voltage: 90V
rpm: 2174
I: 1,51 A

Happ (Hydro or Arsctiv Thunder) Motor brand RAE Corp.
Voltage: 20V
rpm: 468
I: 0,18 A


So that's about all information I can get on my available motors. Some interesting notes on the two similar motors, Konami-24VDC and Happ-20VDC; the rpm is alot higher on the konami type, 3300 opposed to 468 rpm, which is why the konami mech also has a little gear-box between the motor and the steering wheel shaft-gear. Also, I note that the konami motor has a lot higher current rating, 2,70 opposed to Happs 0,18 Amperes.

And, about that weird "I fm" being 24,0 Amps on the konami motor - strange. I've looked up a datasheet on it and it says: "Demagnetization Current" which is supposed to be 24 Apmeres. I would think that it has little to do with regular usage, and more with some factory servicing thing .. god.. hah! "demagnetize..", let's just forget it.

.. did you have any picture of your Logitec motor please? Does it perhaps have a label somewhere?

[uncletom]

My three motors:

[subbie]

Killer, Thanks for all the info on your motors. I'll try to get a few pictures of the motor in my wheel. It might not have a label though (maybe just some printed serial numbers).

"BG3 tuned" - Fingers crossed that you manage to collect a complete kit in time. And then please take some nice shots for me. I *think* I love that game, from what little I've seen of it.

I posted an update. Sadly my proxy got confused as I ordered a few parts from the seller at the time. He was mistaken and the object was just a System 246c unit. I don't get the JVS IO needed for it. =( I hope one of the jpn arcade shops I ask will eventually find one for me. If I do i'll keep you posted.

What kind of multimeter are you using? Digital or analog? The digital type isn't really an optimal tool when measuring quick changes. It has a long delay. In this case one would best use some old analog instrument, or just a scope. Still, it's good to see your readings. Thank you.

Digital. Like you said it's bad with quick spikes but in terms of testing the motor it holds up well since when you turn on the wheel it's applying a constant voltage to apply some force back on you. So it's not spiking to 40v, it's staying at 40v while I'm holding the wheel slightly turned. I'm going to buy a resistor this weekend (if I can still find one locally) to scale the value down by 100 to start. I'll have to see how it holds up and adjust from there (maybe 50 scale since I want a range between [-20v:20v]). I want the motor to be a big stronger then it was when using to play on my Ps3 (the force was too week).

[uncletom]

"I want the motor to be a big stronger then it was when using to play on my Ps3"
- That you can regulate with a resistor. However you need to consider the little motor as well. It will get quite warm the more power/friction you apply to it.

[subbie]

"I want the motor to be a big stronger then it was when using to play on my Ps3"
- That you can regulate with a resistor. However you need to consider the little motor as well. It will get quite warm the more power/friction you apply to it.

Yeah. But when playing a PS3 game there was very little force being applied back (probably 5v). I think pushing more in the general 10-20v range should be ok and not put too much on it. At worse case I can try to find a replacement motor of this size to use that can take the voltage.

If I want to get creative, maybe later i'll rig a a few resisters to a switch so I can change the force.

Actually is there any resistors tied to a controllable regulator? Kind of how in PSU we can tune the +5/+12 voltage lines?

[subbie]

Just to give an update. Not much movement on the motor front. Still trying to get some 5w resistors. I made the mistake of not looking into a store near my work and instead waited till the weekend when I could try what use to be Radio Shack in Canada (now The source) but the best they have is 1w. I found a store a few blocks from my work that should have the 5w resistor I need. =/

Right now i'm working on rigging the pad side. I made a small change to my wheel that will probably **** people off. I found out the shift up & down flaps on the wheel are actually analog but RR is digital. So I decided to rig the gas & break there (will also add in the foot petals but at a later date since they slide around too much and make playing worse at times). Button input will be simple since the buttons are broken into smaller boards and from those boards is a 5 wire cable (4 buttons + gnd). So I can latch onto those for the buttons I need. =D

[uncletom]

Using the 'flaps' for gas & brake is OK, unless you really get used to it and try to promote the idea to the car manufacturers.

Anyway, it's very .. .Dreamcastlike.