leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

PCB problems and fixes
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VectorGlow
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by VectorGlow »

Raz has commented on his Phoenix code, etc:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... ost3505645"
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Spectre »

:fastlove:
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by idc »

Spectre wrote: :fastlove:
:fastlove:
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by SuperPang »

I must admit that I do agree with Raz that all hacked hardware should have some way of identifying it as such on boot. The only reason not to do that is because you want to pretend to someone that it's legit. Even if that someone is yourself, it's asking for trouble when you sell it.
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Rossyra »

idc wrote:
Spectre wrote: :fastlove:
:fastlove:
:fastlove:
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Rossyra »

Identifiers for a conversion, fair enough.

For a community project to preserve original hardware, I don't see the point. The difference between suicide/non-suicide is widely known and the information is freely available within the community.
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by SuperPang »

That's true but I wouldn't bet against the odd ebay noob selling unawares. A bonus to some but not collectors. Add to that the possibility of bugs that haven't been ironed out.
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Rossyra »

I can see how this wouldn't be of use to a collector, but then neither would the phoenix version in that respect.

You have to assume by definition a collector would not be caught out by this.
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by CPS2 »

No battery=bootleg, simples.
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by leonardoliveira »

CPS2 wrote:No battery=bootleg, simples.
Exactly why I started sharing what started as a project for my own entertainment and learning.

Here where it all started:

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... -bored-and

To think the game which started it all was Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter ...
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Spectre »

SuperPang wrote:I must admit that I do agree with Raz that all hacked hardware should have some way of identifying it as such on boot. The only reason not to do that is because you want to pretend to someone that it's legit. Even if that someone is yourself, it's asking for trouble when you sell it.
Have to respectfully disagree here. There are several platforms with suicide batteries out there, many of them have work-arounds to revive dead hardware and none of those employ splash screens, other than Razoola's phoenix edition CPS2 fixes. I've never seen this issue debated for any of those other platforms.

There are lots of ways to identify modified hardware without the need for a splash screen, so why add one. If someone wants to misrepresent what they are selling or defraud others, they're going to do it anyway. I don't feel this is a question of pretending something is "legit", we're fans of original hardware and we want to keep our original hardware working for as long as possible, as close to how it did out of the factory as possible.

I also think it is ridiculous to label these kind of modifications as "bootleg". Bypassing a security system which will eventually kill your hardware does imho not make something a bootleg. Hell I wouldn't even class a conversion as a bootleg, it's running on original hardware after all.
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by dbstallman »

Spectre wrote:Have to respectfully disagree here. There are several platforms with suicide batteries out there, many of them have work-arounds to revive dead hardware and none of those employ splash screens, other than Razoola's phoenix edition CPS2 fixes. I've never seen this issue debated for any of those other platforms.

There are lots of ways to identify modified hardware without the need for a splash screen, so why add one. If someone wants to misrepresent what they are selling or defraud others, they're going to do it anyway. I don't feel this is a question of pretending something is "legit", we're fans of original hardware and we want to keep our original hardware working for as long as possible, as close to how it did out of the factory as possible.

I also think it is ridiculous to label these kind of modifications as "bootleg". Bypassing a security system which will eventually kill your hardware does imho not make something a bootleg. Hell I wouldn't even class a conversion as a bootleg, it's running on original hardware after all.
I agree 100%. CPS-1/CPS-1.5 boards modified to be battery free are never consider "bootleg". It has been my experience that a board that has been fixed (ie. Punisher, Warriors of Fate, Saturday Night Slammasters, etc.) are more valuable than their battery powered counterparts.

The same is true of the decrypted Sega sets for System 16/18. There is no (that I am aware of) high demand for a Golden Axe with still working FD-1094.... (segaressurrection fixes, bah! Mine is still original!).

Conversions are just that, conversions. Certainly less valuable than an original board but absolutely not a bootleg. If you play a conversion Ghouls 'n Ghosts or Progear you will not be able to discern any difference from an original. It can only be identified by looking at the board.

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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by cools »

Why not update the revision number? Easily identifiable, unobtrusive.
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by leonardoliveira »

cools wrote:Why not update the revision number? Easily identifiable, unobtrusive.
That's one thing I won't do, ever. :shifty:

The point was make them be original. Worried about scams ? Open the case and read the chip.

Leave the battery in on your own risk. Like it was posted on the CPS3 related posts, the battery can leak and do massive damage to the board. I doubt anyone would want to keep a battery which it useless and can even corrode the board down in the event of a failure.

Edit: And I don't understand what make the encrypted ones more valuable than the decrypted ones. The encrypted ones can die if you drop, if you zap it with wrong voltage, if you wet it, if you don't replace the battery before it runs dry, if you look at it with a angry face ... :lolno:

You have to break the seals to replace the darndest battery anyway, anyhow. If anything would make a board valuable would be it's casing seals being intact. Now that's something I would understand. But does dead games have increased value for being un-opened ? I don't think so ... :lol:
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Shou »

I agree with what many said before, there are several platforms with suicide batteries and in no other platform, do you see this kind of drama over decrypted ROMs and bootlegs. Bootleggers will try to sell their wares no matter what you do or do not put on whatever screen. As a collector with over 1000 boards in my collection, I absolutely advocate having a clean decrypted ROM set openly available to all. Some of the features Raz has put into his sets are nice but I rather have the same game as a battery board in all of the different regions (ie Powered Gear for Japan, where is it? lol).

In Japan, any game that has been modified in anyway and does not have the original factory EPROM seals on them is considered a bootleg. They don't buy back Phoenix'ed CPS2 games or resurrected System 16/18 games because they aren't original. Obviously, these stores are on their last legs because there aren't many new releases coming out and not much stock floating around especially with the suicide games (I know some stores who have stopped buying back CPS2/3 because of high failure rate) On the flip side, I know many Japanese arcade collectors who actively resurrect games and have no issues with them.
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Razoola »

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... ost3506387"

Just a post to show these fixes are not as fully working, original or clean as made out. I have no problem with other people making fixes anyway they wish but don't go altering other peoples effort and try and pass it off as your own.
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Rossyra »

I dunno man I'm not a code monkey, but maybe there is only one solution to the

Code: Select all

 problems you describe.

I'm sure this community (and maybe this project??) would/could greatly benefit from your input. I assume that's why you joined the forum, right? 

So welcome aboard.  :awe:
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Monstermug »

CPS2 wrote:No battery=bootleg, simples.
You can easily install a new battery on a clean decrypted rom board and pass it on as original. Who will take out the battery to test if it is not?
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Rossyra »

Monstermug wrote:
CPS2 wrote:No battery=bootleg, simples.
You can easily install a new battery on a clean decrypted rom board and pass it on as original. Who will take out the battery to test if it is not?
What a great idea, you could buy desuicided games, stick a battery on and then ... wait, there's no money to be made whatsoever selling CPS2 games. :problem:
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Re: leonardoliveira & Idc's clean decrypted roms

Post by Razoola »

I joined because I wanted to address the notion that these CPS-2 fixes are fully working and clean compared to my phoenix fixes as an example as not clean. Then I discovered at least some of their fixes are actually modded phoenix fixes and that they are not clean fixes either. They have been directly modded not to run as the original I took was the whole purpose of these fixes in the first place.

There are many problems with the fixes I have looked at which are not based on phoenix edition fixes due to incorrect decryption. I though it was important people know this because your going to end up with a CPS2 game that does not play correctly due to incorrect decryption on top of not having a untouched game anyway.

With the phoenix fixes you can be 100% sure of a fully 100% working game (providing you don't change region), 100% playable in the same way as the original. You just have to live with the phoenix edition screen. Its no different than Capcoms own region screen to show different versions of the game.

I have explained many times in the past why the phoenix edition logo is displayed on screen. Its something I believe strongly should be there given its a mod to the game. So the choice is either the phoenix edition fix for a 100% good game or a fix without the logo for a 95% working game. If not that then a dead CPS2 'b' board which is no good to anyone until reloading of key data is done (which may not be so far off btw).

About passing off desuicided games as original no suicicded games....

There is people making money at the expense of collectors. I have seen it first hand when people think its simply a case of their original game suiciding. They are not happy to discover that the game was infact already suicided
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