hitbox controllers

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pubjoe
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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by pubjoe » June 14th, 2019, 10:21 am

ChuChuFlamingo wrote:
June 14th, 2019, 2:12 am
Everyone and their mother is going crazy over it because Daigo started using one and wants to copy monkey him. Even though it has been around for several years. The same people probably ask him when to poop and where.
I don’t keep track of this stuff but could it be a case where he feels forced to use one rather than wants to? Same with the copy monkeys.

I once read a bit of debate about speed run rules for some NES games where pushing left and right simultaniously can be advantageous and in some circumstances game-breaking. It requires a worn-in, broken, modified or custom controller to do. ‘Worn-in’ creates a grey area I guess. I could sympathise with an argument to disallow these and hitboxes in tournaments, but what can they do? With arcade games there’s no standard controller.

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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by zak » June 14th, 2019, 11:55 am


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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by pubjoe » June 14th, 2019, 12:08 pm

:thumbup:

75289DBE-D17A-477D-A878-302355A2D2B4.png
:whoa:

The guy playing with a Playstation steering wheel!

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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by crunchywasp » June 14th, 2019, 12:24 pm

A **** steering wheel :palm:
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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by ChuChuFlamingo » June 16th, 2019, 11:00 am

Most hitboxes have SOCD. Basically pressing opposite cardinal directions results in neutral, same position as if you didn't move a stick.

It is funny Daigo's hitbox got banned because he was using a different SOCD method. It basically allowed him to hold back, press forward for sonic booms and maintain holding back for a perfect charge and do some funny instant flash kicks/supers.

The perfect sonic booms can still be done on a stick by doing 464 (back forward back) punch so you start charging immediately but definitely not as convenient/consistent as holding 4, pressing 6+ punch.

Whats even more hilarious is you can actually do this on a PS4 controller using the D-pad for holding back and the analogue stick for right using a claw style grip. Yet that isn't banned...It just isn't ergonomic and will definitely cause wrist/hand problems.

Where does the line draw on what is acceptable for how many buttons/sticks etc? How about wiring a button for three punches for lariats etc on old games?Certainly makes holding TAP for Balrog easier. Daigo and even Sako iirc had extra buttons (usually select) on their sticks during the SFIV days for plinking to make 1 frame links easier.

I think a lot of games are clearly not designed around having access to all four directions with no neutral (even with SOCD on the hitboxes). Triple forward motions in tekken come to mind. At the same time ease of access has to be considered. If it were me everyone would be playing on the same stuff but that is in a perfect world. I mean what happens if someone doesn't have SOCD? What if they disable it. It just adds more layers of headache to Tournament Organizers.

Tl;dr I think this hitbox issue brings a much bigger issue: consistency and professionalism in the esports/fgc. In competition everyone usually uses the same thing. But with fighting games bring your own controller/stick is usually the sacred rule, and usually no controllers are provided. Although hitboxes have been out for several years, they are not as ubiquitous as sticks or even controllers and are still pretty expensive.

In any case I don't think its cheating but it is getting awfully close.

EDIT: I think the standard hitbox layout is dumb. The up being close to your row of buttons kinda sucks as I like having all three fingers rested on the top, thumb on bottom row. Daigo has the right idea with his spacing.

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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by pubjoe » June 16th, 2019, 11:20 am

Well competition just takes the fun out of anything I guess. I prefer using only six buttons and sometimes **** up the 3P or 3K because that’s the whole point and it’s more fun that way.

It’s interesting to watch but taking esports seriously is always going to be a **** mess. But the case for accessibility is a good one, and this type of problem with control standards is probably also an opportunity to make esports more fairly inclusive than anything else.

Next they’ll be using performance enhancing slugs.

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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by cools » June 16th, 2019, 1:00 pm

Bring your own controller is ludicrous unless there are strict rules around whats allowed (see F1 cars for example).
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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by trev1976 » June 16th, 2019, 1:19 pm

Everything should just be played on standard arcade controls period...

Using anything else just seems wrong to me..
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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by pubjoe » June 16th, 2019, 1:25 pm

What are standard arcade controls? What type of stick? Is any brand allowed? What restrictor gate? Etc etc.

And they play on consoles btw. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by pubjoe » June 16th, 2019, 1:36 pm

If they’re playing a PS4 game it’s a no brainier that PS4 pads are standard.

But this is Street Fighter! Arcade sticks for crying out loud.

And there’s the problem.

At the end of the day, they’re playing a game, with bugs. It’s never going to be perfect.

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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by trev1976 » June 16th, 2019, 3:03 pm

Yeah I see what your saying , like I much prefer a LS-32 over a JLF.

Maybe one of the sponsors should be the default arcade stick they use and they all use the same sticks that are provided.

Would be fairer then.
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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by cools » June 16th, 2019, 6:18 pm

Happ or Suzo all round tbh.
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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by LEGENOARYNINLIA » June 16th, 2019, 7:37 pm

trev1976 wrote:
June 16th, 2019, 3:03 MP
Yeah I see what your saying , like I much prefer a LS-32 over a JLF.

Maybe one of the sponsors should be the default arcade stick they use and they all use the same sticks that are provided.

Would be fairer then.
They will never take this route as pad players play a prominent role in the console centered FGC.

The solution is: stop caring about these media box PC games that are ridden with free and optional $$$ updates that are designed to keep jerking fools around.

London just had a 3rd Strike tournament today where they used a supergun setup with Razer sticks that everyone used. Much easier to do that in a friendly community that isn't business driven.

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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by geotrig » June 16th, 2019, 10:49 pm

pubjoe wrote:
June 16th, 2019, 11:20 am
Well competition just takes the fun out of anything I guess. I prefer using only six buttons and sometimes **** up the 3P or 3K because that’s the whole point and it’s more fun that way.
Totally agree with this never understood the point of the extra button 3p or 3k and like taking my chance with pushing all 3
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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by gray117 » June 25th, 2019, 2:40 pm

It's like using a keyboard, if you're doing you're own thing - fine whatever.

Competition stakes and designer intent - then joystick is the way go.

Historical/cultural context - it's pretty much a travesty.

Do tournements need regulation - yep - it's the same contraversy as something like turbo fire etc.
In tennis for example you bring your own racquets, but there's regs they must adhere to.... same with all manner of equipment in atheltic orientated sports.

The reason for this is despite the objective aim of betterment I think there's still a lot to be said (and probably well worth emphasising these days) for understanding rules in play and respectiving them. Hitboxes are generally introduced with the aim of gaining an imbalanced equipment advantage over other players, and if not outside the explicit rules, then outside the anticipated norms and, whether you win/lose, the social undertanding of the competition.

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Re: hitbox controllers

Post by CTN » June 28th, 2019, 2:49 pm

Good god am I out of touch.
Why can't they play on Viewlix Cabs in an VS setup? I can't take this console based e-sport thing serious.
What was in the back pages of Arcadia or Gamest represented the sport aspect of gaming way better.

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