Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

For monitor related issues
Post Reply
Endprodukt
Posts: 19
Joined: February 10th, 2019, 6:43 pm
Location: Deutschland
eBay: iiendproduktii
Initials: Oli

Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Endprodukt » March 4th, 2019, 4:00 pm

Hey there!

So I will have a completely restored, super beautiful Astro City soon. Only problem is the tube which has a symetry problem. The chassis was checked by hour beloved pro in Germany called Winnie. He thinks that the tube must have gotten a heavy hit at some point.

So, is there a replacement tube that I could try to get if not the original? Any consumer-tv's known to be compatible?

Thanks in advance,

Olli
Last edited by Endprodukt on March 4th, 2019, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
grantspain
Tech Head
Posts: 4401
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 4:23 pm
Location: down south

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by grantspain » March 4th, 2019, 4:06 pm

ms8-26 or ms8-25 or ms8-29?

Endprodukt
Posts: 19
Joined: February 10th, 2019, 6:43 pm
Location: Deutschland
eBay: iiendproduktii
Initials: Oli

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Endprodukt » March 4th, 2019, 4:10 pm

Sorry, forgot to mention, it's MS-8-29!

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1381
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by nem » March 4th, 2019, 4:14 pm

Aero City has a MS8-26 as standard.

Good luck finding an A63 sized tube in Europe. I know I've tried!

Endprodukt
Posts: 19
Joined: February 10th, 2019, 6:43 pm
Location: Deutschland
eBay: iiendproduktii
Initials: Oli

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Endprodukt » March 4th, 2019, 4:16 pm

nem wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 4:14 MP
Aero City has a MS8-26 as standard.

Good luck finding an A63 sized tube in Europe. I know I've tried!
It's an Astro City, I'm stupid. Sorry, I'm reading a lot and mixing things up. Sorry again.

It's an Astro City, MS-8-29-

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1381
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by nem » March 4th, 2019, 4:21 pm

Well, then!

There's a Grundig television that has the correct tube. I'm sure you can find the model number with Google.

Endprodukt
Posts: 19
Joined: February 10th, 2019, 6:43 pm
Location: Deutschland
eBay: iiendproduktii
Initials: Oli

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Endprodukt » March 4th, 2019, 4:37 pm

nem wrote:
March 4th, 2019, 4:21 MP
Well, then!

There's a Grundig television that has the correct tube. I'm sure you can find the model number with Google.
I can only find threads about the 26 but not the 29. Getting Grundigs in Germany wouldn't be too hard.

Endprodukt
Posts: 19
Joined: February 10th, 2019, 6:43 pm
Location: Deutschland
eBay: iiendproduktii
Initials: Oli

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Endprodukt » March 5th, 2019, 8:41 am

Anyone who can push me in the right direction?

I'm having access to a 29" 15khz Grundig. It's a St 72-600 Top.

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1381
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by nem » March 5th, 2019, 9:57 am

I might be remembering wrong, because I can't find it either.

I think with the MS8 you will have to swap the yoke. It's a PITA to do right. This said, if your current setup is junk, there's no harm in trying. If you don't mind the curvature being spot on (the bezel won't sit right), then have a crack at it with any 29" (A68) tube that has the correct neck connector.

User avatar
PrincessPrinPrin
Posts: 452
Joined: April 7th, 2011, 4:00 pm
Location: Pordenone, Italy
eBay: *mkl*
Initials: MKL

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by PrincessPrinPrin » March 5th, 2019, 1:57 pm

That Grundig model is useless for various reasons:

1) not the same front glass curvature as the Toshiba tube in the Astro. It's less curved and will not fit the bezel.

2) it's a 50Hz model and the yoke is for a 15KHz line out frequency (around 1.2mH).

3) You cannot swap the yoke as it's a Philips tube (A68ESF...). Philips tubes are designed to have the multipole ring (for purity and convergence corrections) *inside* the tube and yokes designed specifically for these tubes (double mussel coils, etc.). If you want to swap yokes on a Philips tube with good results it must be a Philips yoke.

You could use that tube with some other chassis. For instance an Intervideo dual frequency chassis but not with a Nanao MS8-29 (or MS9-29) chassis. This is what I personally would do for the best result. Only drawback is there will be gaps along the bezel sides due to the different glass curvature.

If you really want to use the MS8 chassis with a tube from a TV then it must be a 100Hz TV. The line out frequency of these TVs is 31KHz and the tubes have yokes specifically made for this, with a horizontal scan coil of around 0.3mH. This inductance value is the same or very close to that of the MS8/9 yokes. So the only attempt at driving a TV tube with the Nanao chassis should be made with a 100Hz tube.

None of the 100Hz tubes found in European TVs will have the same curvature as the Toshiba tube in an Astro, unfortunately. The best you can find is a tube that will fit the Blast City (or Windy or Naomi+Sanwa monitor) bezel. There are indeed Grundig models with this kind of tube (Toshiba A68KZN696X).

As for the yoke swap option, this hardly ever leads to great results but you can try it if you know what it entails. Just not on a Philips tube and knowing that the donor tube will not match the curvature of the Astro bezel.
Im running games with a vga to tv converter on my Shangai Novel, with composite and it looks amazing, Im not interested in RGB or Scart.

- anonymous

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1381
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by nem » March 5th, 2019, 4:24 pm

PrincessPrinPrin wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:57 MP
3) You cannot swap the yoke as it's a Philips tube (A68ESF...). Philips tubes are designed to have the multipole ring (for purity and convergence corrections) *inside* the tube and yokes designed specifically for these tubes (double mussel coils, etc.). If you want to swap yokes on a Philips tube with good results it must be a Philips yoke.
This I didn't know. Good info, thanks!

Endprodukt
Posts: 19
Joined: February 10th, 2019, 6:43 pm
Location: Deutschland
eBay: iiendproduktii
Initials: Oli

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Endprodukt » March 9th, 2019, 4:33 pm

PrincessPrinPrin wrote:
March 5th, 2019, 1:57 MP
That Grundig model is useless for various reasons:

1) not the same front glass curvature as the Toshiba tube in the Astro. It's less curved and will not fit the bezel.

2) it's a 50Hz model and the yoke is for a 15KHz line out frequency (around 1.2mH).

3) You cannot swap the yoke as it's a Philips tube (A68ESF...). Philips tubes are designed to have the multipole ring (for purity and convergence corrections) *inside* the tube and yokes designed specifically for these tubes (double mussel coils, etc.). If you want to swap yokes on a Philips tube with good results it must be a Philips yoke.

You could use that tube with some other chassis. For instance an Intervideo dual frequency chassis but not with a Nanao MS8-29 (or MS9-29) chassis. This is what I personally would do for the best result. Only drawback is there will be gaps along the bezel sides due to the different glass curvature.

If you really want to use the MS8 chassis with a tube from a TV then it must be a 100Hz TV. The line out frequency of these TVs is 31KHz and the tubes have yokes specifically made for this, with a horizontal scan coil of around 0.3mH. This inductance value is the same or very close to that of the MS8/9 yokes. So the only attempt at driving a TV tube with the Nanao chassis should be made with a 100Hz tube.

None of the 100Hz tubes found in European TVs will have the same curvature as the Toshiba tube in an Astro, unfortunately. The best you can find is a tube that will fit the Blast City (or Windy or Naomi+Sanwa monitor) bezel. There are indeed Grundig models with this kind of tube (Toshiba A68KZN696X).

As for the yoke swap option, this hardly ever leads to great results but you can try it if you know what it entails. Just not on a Philips tube and knowing that the donor tube will not match the curvature of the Astro bezel.
Do you think that the ms2932 tube should work with the ms8-29?

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1381
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by nem » March 10th, 2019, 2:45 pm

Tube is the same, yoke is different.

Endprodukt
Posts: 19
Joined: February 10th, 2019, 6:43 pm
Location: Deutschland
eBay: iiendproduktii
Initials: Oli

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Endprodukt » March 10th, 2019, 8:37 pm

So what would happen if I didn't do a yoke swap? Could still work? I mean, I could do a yoke swap. I did calibrate yokes in the past.

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1381
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by nem » March 11th, 2019, 11:28 am

Horizontal is off by 0.1mh (0.2 vs 0.3mh, IIRC). Can't remember what vertical is.

PrincessPrinPrin will know for sure.

Endprodukt
Posts: 19
Joined: February 10th, 2019, 6:43 pm
Location: Deutschland
eBay: iiendproduktii
Initials: Oli

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Endprodukt » March 11th, 2019, 12:34 pm

Yeah. Would that make a yoke swap necessary or could it still work with just the tube swap?

Asure
Posts: 570
Joined: April 17th, 2013, 5:16 pm
Location: Netherlands
eBay: asure_nl

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Asure » March 12th, 2019, 3:05 pm

I have a MS9 running a PM1745 29" tube and the horizontal is also .1 off (MS9 = 0.300mh and PM1745 is 0.400mh ). For some games i need to adjust the H.S. Limit or the screen size won't adjust fully with the remote. MS8 is around 0.350 so you might get away with this just fine.
If you don't swap pcb's much this is not a big deal. I'm not sure about the vertical, maybe others can chime in.
This combo has been running fine for the last 2 years or so, with minor use (~2 evenings per week, maybe 10 hours total a month?).

Endprodukt
Posts: 19
Joined: February 10th, 2019, 6:43 pm
Location: Deutschland
eBay: iiendproduktii
Initials: Oli

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Endprodukt » March 12th, 2019, 4:31 pm

Thanks! I think I'll try a chassis swap first. If that doesn't help it will be a swap of the AE as well.

Endprodukt
Posts: 19
Joined: February 10th, 2019, 6:43 pm
Location: Deutschland
eBay: iiendproduktii
Initials: Oli

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by Endprodukt » April 4th, 2019, 10:27 pm

Hey!

Just wanted to let everyone know that the swap was a success.

So I took the tube of a ms2932 and used the MS8 chassis, yoke and convergency rings. The picture is super nice. There is some convergency issues in the corner, not so much that I'm willing to fiddle around with it for ages. In the center it's pretty much perfect and ingame you rarely see the problems in the corner :)
Attachments
2019-03-25 20.09.59 (Medium).jpg

User avatar
nem
Posts: 1381
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Nanao MS-8 Replacement Tube?

Post by nem » April 6th, 2019, 12:53 pm

Awesome. Good job!

Post Reply