Initial D Version 3 Question

For monitor related issues
KrazyPT
Please Continue...
Posts: 7
Joined: March 21st, 2018, 4:48 pm
Location: United States
eBay: european_auto_recycling_online
Initials: KRZ

Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by KrazyPT »

Hey Guys,

Fairly new here, Prior to buying this machine I had googled around and found a handful of threads here regarding monitor upgrades / replacements.

Anyways, to the point lol

Its a Version 3 Japan Cab ( I assume, Everything is in Japanese on the outside of the machine, the Rom is Japanese, as well the Card reader is different than any other Version 3 I've played in the past. )

What are my options in terms of increasing the frequency? Right now its very dim, I've messed around with the settings and did not find anything regarding freq. Any suggestions on how to increase it, I would gladly appreciate.

As well, what are my options in terms of upgrading the monitor etc?

Thanks!

Image
User avatar
geotrig
Potato!
Posts: 7506
Joined: December 5th, 2008, 1:14 pm
Location: ._.
eBay: ._.

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by geotrig »

I've long since moved mine but The monitor adjustment board might be accessible from the back panel, if not maybe remove the side panel on the left there you can make brightness adjustments

If it's Japanese spec I'd3 it should have a trisync
Image

<trk>:I remember catching a big fat one and my friend said "throw it back in, that one already tastes like wood"
User avatar
outrun2
Posts: 253
Joined: August 18th, 2010, 6:25 pm
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
eBay: thefonzzz
Initials: GAZ

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by outrun2 »

Beautiful cab, Japanese versions of these cabs truly are the best 8-)

So unusual to see one with the mega rare network pop still mounted and in good condition! I've just managed to find one this week for my cab (after probably six years of searching) so I know how hard they are to find!

Looks like it has iD2 artwork under that seat back sticker which is cool.

Regarding the monitor, what do you mean by frequency? Do you mean the image is dim and needs more brightness? If so the standard menu will only give limited options for tweaking so have a go in there first - the remote board is located on the back of a small cover under the dash area. You may also want to try upping the SCREEN pot on the back of the flyback (minute turns clockwise only.. really only 1deg at a time). This will add oomph to the display but you don't want to overdo it.

There is an extended menu on this monitor but you have to modify the remote board to access it.. best keep it to simple checks first until you learn more. I'm sure you already know but don't go poking around too much in the back of the monitor when it's on, or off if you don't know what you're doing.

BTW you already have the best monitor you can get for this cab installed, a tri sync Toshiba PF. Most people would kill to get one of these monitors, but they can be difficult if they go wrong as there's no schematics available so hardly anyone fixes the chassis.

Get some more pics up and maybe a video of what the display currently looks like so the monitor experts can take a look.

edit: this is the thread on the remote board modding https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic ... iba+remote
Wanted:
Sega Model 3 Emergency Call Ambulance ROM board or complete Step 2 boardset.
Zorigami
Please Continue...
Posts: 43
Joined: June 16th, 2020, 6:29 am
Location: Usa
eBay: Jodoll4704
Initials: GST

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by Zorigami »

Bumping this old thread to look for some info. I recently acquired a pair of JDM Initial D V.3 cabinets with pretty nice LCD screens mounted in them. But I have a pair of Sanwa PFX monitors from another racing cab that I'd like to put into the Initial D. The fit was easy, but the power is proving to be a puzzle.

The old LCDs were drawing power from a pair of Red and Blue wires that were measuring 60v AC on each line. It happens to be lines from the same connector that is powering the cabinet lights. My understanding is that the CRT should be getting 120v (90 - 220v but my wall pushes 120v) on the live line and zero on the neutral line with a ground as the third line on the connector. Where is the best place to draw those lines from?

I have looked some but can't find where the native power to feed the CRT was run. I assume that LCDs weren't stock and that there -should- be some 120v/0v lines in there somewhere. If not, there is a connector that brings AC wall power into the cabinet located just after the line filter that has some extra space where I could probably re-pin to add another pair of live and neutral lines to bring up to the CRT. Is there any reason why doing that would be a bad idea? Where are the missing CRT power lines?
User avatar
nem
Needs a custom rank
Posts: 2768
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by nem »

Zorigami wrote: March 14th, 2021, 1:34 amThe old LCDs were drawing power from a pair of Red and Blue wires that were measuring 60v AC on each line. It happens to be lines from the same connector that is powering the cabinet lights.
I've never heard of anything running off 60VAC. It should be regular 100VAC mains going to the marquee light (or in your case, 120VAC). I think you're just measuring it incorrectly. Set the multimeter to AC, one meter lead on neutral and the other on live. If you have a two wire AC cable, then it's easy, doesn't matter which lead on what. If you have a three wire cable, then one wire will be earth ground. Earth ground will usually always be green or green and yellow. However, live and neutral can be any color. I've seen black, white, pink, blue, brown, etc.
Zorigami
Please Continue...
Posts: 43
Joined: June 16th, 2020, 6:29 am
Location: Usa
eBay: Jodoll4704
Initials: GST

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by Zorigami »

Don’t know, but I’m sure that’s what is reading. Regardless, I built in a new 120v line from the connector immediately post the line filter (per the schematic for initial d 3 twin) and brought it up to the crt chassis. Now it has a confirmed clean 120v/neutral/ground connector running to the crt. Pinned it according to the pfx wiki on this site (minus the external degauss lines which are chilling in another connector).

Popped in my other 100uf/250v cap into c830 and same exact problem. Everything seems hunky dory for like 4-5 seconds and the cap pops.

Masking on the pcb had negative line to the left and pos to the right. I’m sure both times I installed it in that direction. I have another pcb that’s a few years older (same monitor setup, just older PCB) that I have yet to cap kit and the cap at c830 is in the same direction. The newer one is white and the older one is yellow.

I’m pretty sure the haven’t shorted it anything else as they cap is pretty far away from any other lines. Maybe somebody out there had a similar (white) board and can confirm which direction that cap is supposed to go (neg left or right).

Alternatively, since I’ve blown 2 caps already, is there any risk to trying to install the cap backwards beyond maybe blowing a 3rd cap?
User avatar
outrun2
Posts: 253
Joined: August 18th, 2010, 6:25 pm
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
eBay: thefonzzz
Initials: GAZ

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by outrun2 »

I'm not sure what a 'JDM' initial D cab is but in Japanese and Export versions of initial D cabs the monitor supply should be 100VAC like the power to the light unit, drive board and PSU. This 100VAC is distributed after the transformer.

If your cab is wired totally differently then I can't help but you might want to check what voltage your CRT is expecting, 120VAC may be above the required range
Wanted:
Sega Model 3 Emergency Call Ambulance ROM board or complete Step 2 boardset.
User avatar
grantspain
Tech Head
Posts: 4823
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 4:23 pm
Location: down south

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by grantspain »

post a photo of the cap on the chassis
Zorigami
Please Continue...
Posts: 43
Joined: June 16th, 2020, 6:29 am
Location: Usa
eBay: Jodoll4704
Initials: GST

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by Zorigami »

To clarify: the cabinet is a Japanese cabinet (made for Japan) which had LCDs in it when it got to me. I removed the lcds and am attempting to transplant a pair of Sanwa PFX monitors I have in a pair of Wangan Midnight 3 cabinets that are “export” as in for the American market. The power connectors on both kw0606a Pcbs on the chassis are 5 pin amp mate-n-lok. Both monitors were working fine on wall power on their wangan cabinets. The initial Ds were running fine on wall power with their LCDs.

The wiki for the monitors mentions that the crt/chassis can run on anything from 90v to 220v (and even has a second set of degauss pins if you’re running at the higher voltage). That’s what I based my wall power shenanigans on (that and the manual for the USA twin initial D 3 cab: full aware that that is a different cabinet).

This is the cap that vented first. Not shown in the picture is the top, which is both slightly domed up and has a hairline fissure on top at about 3:00 on the clock face if you’re holding negative at 6:00.
7AED44AD-EDE1-4F62-95AE-61524105928F.jpeg
This is the second cap, vented but still in place while I get replacements.
2D82F963-9D17-4AE8-83F0-99298ECFB5EB.jpeg
I am 100% sure that is the cap that busted because I watched it go the second time around.

And since I was next to the cab I went ahead and triple checked the voltage at the power lines that had been feeding the LCD (and an unpopulated plug socketed into the motor socket plate and the fluorescent bulb in the top front of the cabinet (the marquee light) and all three are 60v ac at the red and 62v at the blue. I measured them with the negative lead on the master ground just below the master power switch on the back of the cabinet.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
nem
Needs a custom rank
Posts: 2768
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:59 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by nem »

The cap you have in is correct (100uF 200V). The orientation is correct too. My guess is you have a solder bridge somewhere, but grant will know better.

Zorigami wrote: March 15th, 2021, 4:53 pmAnd since I was next to the cab I went ahead and triple checked the voltage at the power lines that had been feeding the LCD (and an unpopulated plug socketed into the motor socket plate and the fluorescent bulb in the top front of the cabinet (the marquee light) and all three are 60v ac at the red and 62v at the blue. I measured them with the negative lead on the master ground just below the master power switch on the back of the cabinet.

That's not how you measure AC.
User avatar
grantspain
Tech Head
Posts: 4823
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 4:23 pm
Location: down south

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by grantspain »

yeah right cap value, right polarity
no idea whats going on but next step would be isolate the b+ from the flyback and add a dummy load with a new cap in place
Zorigami
Please Continue...
Posts: 43
Joined: June 16th, 2020, 6:29 am
Location: Usa
eBay: Jodoll4704
Initials: GST

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by Zorigami »

Not electrical anything by training so I’m still learning. My understanding was that to test AC voltage you set your meter to the “V ~” mode and put the com lead (black) on the earth ground and the other lead (red in my case) you probe the other two pins (if it is a wall plug like the one I built).

The voltage between live and ground should be your max voltage for the line (the highest potential difference: 120v in my case). If your neutral line is truly neutral then neutral to ground should be 0 volts. And Live to neutral should be the difference in potential between the live line and the neutral line: also 120v in my case.

Just for lulz I checked continuity on my ground and neutral lines and they do not have continuity (meter set to ohms and the diode setting)

Since everything in the cabinet should ultimately be connected through to the main earth ground (right?) by some rout then shouldn’t measuring a line with the com lead on main earth ground and the other lead on the wire give you the maximum potential that line carries?

I tried the red and blue lines and they measure 124v between them but if that’s the case, which one is the neutral line? They both read 60v to ground.
User avatar
grantspain
Tech Head
Posts: 4823
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 4:23 pm
Location: down south

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by grantspain »

to read ac you read between each of two voltage lines and not to earth, otherwise i have been doing it wrong for the last 36 years but getting the correct results
to be perfectly honest it don't matter which is live or neutral in the cab and if you really want to make sure then follow the wires to the transformer or power input and that should tell you

all i can think is that you may have a wrong value cap further back on the b+ line, there should be a 220uf 250v on that line- maybe tell which cap values you have in the power supply section
Zorigami
Please Continue...
Posts: 43
Joined: June 16th, 2020, 6:29 am
Location: Usa
eBay: Jodoll4704
Initials: GST

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by Zorigami »

C438 is immediately next to the flyback: 220uf 250v looks ok
C830 (exploded)
Then c822 (220uf/250v) looks ok

That’s we are the 3 250v caps I replaced on the main PCB.

Not super sure which pin off the flyback is the +b

My guess is it’s this guy:
91A2CD76-35BE-4518-BF21-840750CE41EA.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
grantspain
Tech Head
Posts: 4823
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 4:23 pm
Location: down south

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by grantspain »

di you replace all the caps or just a few?
Zorigami
Please Continue...
Posts: 43
Joined: June 16th, 2020, 6:29 am
Location: Usa
eBay: Jodoll4704
Initials: GST

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by Zorigami »

I installed an entire cap kit from Arcade Parts and Repair. It was all of the standard looking caps except for the huuuuuuge 400v ca

Side note: I pulled the chassis from the other monitor (no yet cap-kitted) and plugged it into the monitor in the cabinet. Needed a de-gauss and some further tuning but it works fine (even on a recklessly cobbled 120v line from between the line filter and the transformer). Corners are a little gross (green) and brightness is low . . . And vertical was way too high. Mostly w/in the scope of the on-board tuning menu.
User avatar
grantspain
Tech Head
Posts: 4823
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 4:23 pm
Location: down south

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by grantspain »

do you still have the original caps, if so put back in the originals in c822 and c830
Zorigami
Please Continue...
Posts: 43
Joined: June 16th, 2020, 6:29 am
Location: Usa
eBay: Jodoll4704
Initials: GST

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by Zorigami »

I do still have the originals. Can probably give it a whirl on Wednesday. Will report back with results.

Other note: after tuning the CRT that is working in the cab I was starting to intermittent crashes on the Naomi2. Checked all the wires I touched and none were touching anything as far as I could tell. I bundled everything up extra secure to be sure, buttoned the power plate back onto the cab, plugged it into the 100v plug-in wall transformer I was too lazy to unbox, and checked the 3.3, 5, and 12v DC coming off the psu.

Not sure why but the 5 was running up at 5.54 so I turned it down to 5 flat. The 3.3 is running 3.34 but I can’t turn the pot for that down any farther. And there’s no pot to adjust the 12, which was also running slightly high (maybe 12.2?).

Got through a race after that, no Naomi crash, and FML does it look nice through that tube.
User avatar
grantspain
Tech Head
Posts: 4823
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 4:23 pm
Location: down south

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by grantspain »

sounds like the power supply could do with some cap work, the 12v and 3.3v are fine but the 3.3 should have more range on adjustment. 5.05 to 5.1 on the naomi filter board is the reading you want to see
Zorigami
Please Continue...
Posts: 43
Joined: June 16th, 2020, 6:29 am
Location: Usa
eBay: Jodoll4704
Initials: GST

Re: Initial D Version 3 Question

Post by Zorigami »

Things we learned today: the insides of different capacitors smell different: KEC caps kinda smell like fish.

I put back the original caps at c822 and c830, leaving cap c438 new. Once again, c830 popped in about 2-3 seconds. C822 seems fine. Does this mean, maybe, that C438 is my bad actor? That’s the cap that I left new that lives closest to the flyback.

Or maybe this gives some indication where to chase down some bad continuity?
Post Reply