NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

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JackieHarris
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NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by JackieHarris »

Just recently noticed an issue with my NAC monitor, and now I can't stop noticing it...

There's a horizontal 'wiggle' at all times, parallel to the scanlines. Very minor, but you can see it when you look at fixed objects. It's like there's some kind of interference or something.

I've tried looking it up online, and for some similar issues people suggest it's to do with grounding or having an internal transformer. This cab has an internal transformer, so could that be it? Or something else?

I'd appreciate any advice from people with more knowledge on this than me (i.e. almost anyone)! :awe:

Not sure if this is any use, but here are a few photos of the internals:

Image
Image
Image

Thanks in advance for any help :)
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by Asure »

I've see wiggle like this before, and it's magnetic, the cause is indeed that internal transformer. it's not supposed to be in there. Using an external stepdown will solve this, but you need to redo the power wiring. Looks to be a clean mod, should not be too hard. (unplug cab from AC wall outlet first before touching _any_ of those wires!)
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by grantspain »

Asure wrote:I've see wiggle like this before, and it's magnetic, the cause is indeed that internal transformer. it's not supposed to be in there. Using an external stepdown will solve this, but you need to redo the power wiring. Looks to be a clean mod, should not be too hard. (unplug cab from AC wall outlet first before touching _any_ of those wires!)
yes i have seen this many times
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by Stompp »

Damn, I was planning on precisely this for not having to have the external stepdowns. I suppose I should ditch that idea :(
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by JackieHarris »

Thanks for the responses!

Hmm, does that mean ALL internal transformers cause screen interference? Or is it just some of them?

I'm just trying to figure out my options. It's neat having the transformer inside the cab, rather than having an external box lying around. Let's say for example I got rid of the current transformer, bought an Airlink UK-JA0250 and set it up so it was inside the cab - would I still get interference?

The other question is HOW I redo the power wiring! I'm no electrician, no idea where to start. I'll try some searching, but can anyone point me in the right direction? :(
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by moshpit »

I had that wiggle on my cabs as well. I usually used the powerchord with the ground pin on the plug with my external step down transformers. Once I removed the adapter with the ground pin it stopped the wiggle :think:
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by FrancoB »

Stompp wrote:Damn, I was planning on precisely this for not having to have the external stepdowns. I suppose I should ditch that idea :(
I've got two similar step downs inside my NAC and E2 and I don't have any problems. You can always wire it up quickly with some longer cables and try it inside the cab before installing it properly/neatly.
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by JackieHarris »

moshpit wrote:I had that wiggle on my cabs as well. I usually used the powerchord with the ground pin on the plug with my external step down transformers. Once I removed the adapter with the ground pin it stopped the wiggle :think:
Could this apply with my problem? Is there some part of the wiring I'd need to change to achieve the same thing?

And sorry if this is a stupid question or I'm misunderstanding... :-?
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grantspain
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by grantspain »

the problem you describe is when the transformer is mounted too close to the deflection coil,the magnetic fields conflict

quick way to prove this is just move the transformer further away from the deflection coil
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by JackieHarris »

grantspain wrote:the problem you describe is when the transformer is mounted too close to the deflection coil,the magnetic fields conflict

quick way to prove this is just move the transformer further away from the deflection coil
Thanks for the info! :)

Unfortunately I can't move the transformer any further away than it already is. So the question is, is there any way to insulate the transformer to prevent it causing interference? Or is the ONLY option to just rewire the cab so it has an external stepdown?
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by THEVLM »

Did his ever get resolved, I have a similar issue also but its on the verticle axis. Ive sent my chassis for repair but I am interested as to how to deal with this?
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by Devil Soundwave »

Would some sort of shielding for the transformer help at all?
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by Asure »

Just chucked out the transformer in the Naomi that Sombetzki chopped for me because of the exact same wobbling. He mentioned a shielding plate that sits below the monitor as a first solution, but i never tested with it. I think he described it as "something made out of lead or a thick fat b4st3rd".

I thought it would be less hassle to redo a bit of wiring and loosen two screws to lift out the transformer. F3kking wobble gone yay!
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by JackieHarris »

Asure wrote:He mentioned a shielding plate that sits below the monitor as a first solution, but i never tested with it. I think he described it as "something made out of lead or a thick fat b4st3rd".

I thought it would be less hassle to redo a bit of wiring and loosen two screws to lift out the transformer. F3kking wobble gone yay!
I was hoping some kind of shielding might be an option, but no-one mentioned it first time around in the thread. I know nothing about wiring, so would definitely be a simpler option for me! :P

Would something like this do the job?: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MagnetShield- ... 1c57e29cb8
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by Asure »

I don't know about the shielding you linked to, but i use a simple 300W external stepdown:

http://www.shadaloo.eu/index.php?route= ... h=stepdown

To use this on your cab, you will need to bypass the internal transformer.
Unplug the machine from the wall outlet and follow these steps:
(Failure to unplug the machine might result in shock and death, so yes, it must be unplugged!)

1. On the transformer, there are two wires plugged into the two lugs "8" - light blue and "9" - light pink.
These go from the transformer, into the power supply at the front.
The power supply needs AC 120, this is what the large transformer is supplying. (And it generates a magnetic field while doing so.)
-> Wiggle off the two connectors 8 and 9 from the large transformer.

2. In your pic of the 'back power area' the wall cable is at the bottom. As you can see, brown and blue go into the bottom, yellow/green ground is screwed into the plate.
From that transparant fuse block, the incoming power is wired to a switch and then enters the line filter at the bottom. In your pic, a black sleeved cable with tie wrap is seen.
The black sleeved cable goes to the transformer, supplying it with 240 AC.
-> Disconnect the top left blue wire, and disconnect the top left brown wire.

3. The light blue "8" wire that we disconnected from the large transformer goes on the top left terminal of the line filter.
4. The light pink "9" wire that we disconnected from the large transformer goes to the top right terminal of the line filter.
You might need to purchase two proper terminal connectors (spade type) of the ones in place (see http://www.shadaloo.eu/index.php?route= ... uct_id=157)
From this point on: The cab is wired for 120AC, and you do not plug it into the UK wall outlet ever! ;)

Stepdown i linked to is external, sits besides the cab. Takes UK AC power from the wall, and delivers 120AC into the cab.
You might need to purchase a US type 2-pronged flat power plug to stick into the stepdown, not sure if the power plug is the same.
I think your astro->wall plug might be replaced with a power plug type that unscrews, they probably cut off the original which is molded type and does not come off. (At least it is molded type on my Astro.)

The end result will still have the transformer sitting inside the cab, but it's not doing anything so there's no magnetic field :)
You could remove it and sell the copper to some recycling company. €4.50/Kg today. I would guess a bigass transformer ~5-10 Kg, check with yer local scrap yard :)
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by JackieHarris »

Asure, thanks so much for taking the time to write that rewiring explanation! I really appreciate it :awe:

From the look of things I'd need an external stepdown, 2 spade terminal connectors, and I'll also need to rewire the plug: the wall cable leads to a standard UK plug, so I guess I'd need to cut that off & replace it with a flat 2-pin plug to connect it to the stepdown.

That's good to know, but I think I'm going to try the shielding first, just because it's cheaper! ;) If it doesn't work out, then I'll get parts ordered & go through your instructions. Thanks again.
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by crunchywasp »

If you need a Maplin type 300W/120v stepdown and a couple of spade connectors I've got both which you can have for the price of postage. I work in Edinburgh so could work something out to save posting them.
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by PrincessPrinPrin »

The transformer in the OP as well as those in Naomi cabs is a laminated core type. A toroidal core type is preferable as they generate less intereference.
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by Asure »

crunchywasp wrote:If you need a Maplin type 300W/120v stepdown and a couple of spade connectors I've got both which you can have for the price of postage. I work in Edinburgh so could work something out to save posting them.
Great offer there, go for it :) No more wiggle!
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Re: NAC - minor wiggle / interference, source?

Post by JackieHarris »

crunchywasp wrote:If you need a Maplin type 300W/120v stepdown and a couple of spade connectors I've got both which you can have for the price of postage. I work in Edinburgh so could work something out to save posting them.
Thanks for the offer, very generous! :D I'll send you a PM.
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