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Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 for everyone - interest check

Posted: May 31st, 2020, 9:05 pm
by Endprodukt
Hi guys,

*Now working also with real hardware!

me and a buddy developed a little system to automatically switch the 15/25khz mode on the Nanao MS8 and MS9 on emulator based systems.
It's compatible with any emulator and frontend that allows you to launch an executable before and after launching the emulator. (PC Based, sorry Raspberry users)

The switching is pretty safe as far as we can tell, making sure it's not too heavy on your chassis (we got the information from Winni - German CRT guru).

15khz is the default mode. Running a game with 25khz will switch off the CRT, wait for 2 seconds, switch the resolution, wait again for a second and switch on the CRT again. Works very very well and should be safe.

We tested with Mame, Model 2 and Model 3. The latter two systems are natively 25khz. It also allows you to run vertical games in a much nicer resolution on a horizontal monitor, if a second TATE setup is just not available.

We would like to know if there is any interest in this modification. We would make professional pcb's and try to make it as plug and play as possible, but working on the chassis (basically just plugging something in there) will be necessary and is potentially dangerous! Also, as of now, additional software work is needed. We look into reading the sync signal coming from your GPU and interpreting it. This would circumvent any use of additional software and make setup even easier.

Please answer to the poll and feel free to ask any questions.

The prototype is running in my system right now and works as expected. Please don't ask for a price. It all depends on the interest.

Have a nice one,

Olli

Edit:

The modification is now completely software independant. You can use it with real hardware and any emulation device, frontend and OS of your choice. No climbing into your cabinet will be necessary anymore.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: May 31st, 2020, 9:35 pm
by emphatic
If it just catches the output resolution of the game then does it's magic all in a hardware addon to the monitor, I would like one or maybe two. If it has to involve a PC to switch resolutions, not so much.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: May 31st, 2020, 11:17 pm
by Endprodukt
This is a system mainly with the thought of emulation, where you switch between games easily. Now if we manage to get this running without additional software and read the sync signal, you could use this system to automatically switch when you insert a 25khz game without changing the plug manually. You would simply add a cable to the sync pin on the jamma harness, attach that to the board and be good to go.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: May 31st, 2020, 11:40 pm
by emphatic
I look forward to seeing some sort of prototype.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 1st, 2020, 3:43 pm
by Sp33dFr34k
Will there be a manual switch as well? I'm not using a PC but a Raspberry Pi.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 1st, 2020, 3:52 pm
by Endprodukt
Sp33dFr34k wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 3:43 pm
Will there be a manual switch as well? I'm not using a PC but a Raspberry Pi.
There is a manual switch already, yes. It will first shutdown the monitor and then do the plugging.

BTW we already test reading the sync signal from Jamma and we seem to get it right. So it will be compatible with anything that can output 25khz.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 1st, 2020, 5:07 pm
by Sp33dFr34k
Endprodukt wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 3:52 pm
Sp33dFr34k wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 3:43 pm
Will there be a manual switch as well? I'm not using a PC but a Raspberry Pi.
There is a manual switch already, yes. It will first shutdown the monitor and then do the plugging.

BTW we already test reading the sync signal from Jamma and we seem to get it right. So it will be compatible with anything that can output 25khz.
Okay sounds interesting. Would love to see a prototype with a video of it in action :)

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 1st, 2020, 5:57 pm
by Endprodukt
I can confirm that this is now completely automatic on hardware, doesn't need any files or software.

Can someone move this into the crt section maybe, this is not only emulator based anymore now.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 1st, 2020, 11:21 pm
by emphatic
Endprodukt wrote:
June 1st, 2020, 5:57 pm
I can confirm that this is now completely automatic on hardware, doesn't need any files or software.

Can someone move this into the crt section maybe, this is not only emulator based anymore now.
Great job!

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 2nd, 2020, 11:45 am
by Endprodukt
We already have a great candidate that is a single relay to switch all 4 poles. It's very high quality and will hopefully keep working for many years to come.

In the next step we will integrate a PC and an Arcade mode.

Pc Mode: Will hold 15khz mode on startup, because the boot can force different resolutions and make our solution switch to 25/15 khz rapidly. To prevent that, we will have a timer that everyone can adjust to their own boot times. If you also use Atom-15 you will be able to use the bios (not UEFI).

Arcade Mode: Will start automaticaly in the mode defined by the connected arcade pcb.

The resolution detection is very very fast and shouldn't cause any harm to the nanao chassis. The sync signal will be available from the Jamma connector (P).

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 2nd, 2020, 11:49 am
by tronbaby
I'm interested too, thanks.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 2nd, 2020, 4:26 pm
by Lazyace
Interested in this. Sounds like a great idea. Model 2 games don't look great at 15hz via M2 emulator and would be nice to play Crackdown properly.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 3rd, 2020, 7:24 am
by Endprodukt
tronbaby wrote:
June 2nd, 2020, 11:49 am
I'm interested too, thanks.
Model 2 looks fantastic in native resolution. You need to make sure your setup will play the games in their native resolution though. You need the correct modeline with 496x384 at 25khz and you have to set the resolution in the config of the emulator.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 3rd, 2020, 9:28 am
by tronbaby
Endprodukt wrote:
June 3rd, 2020, 7:24 am
Model 2 looks fantastic in native resolution. You need to make sure your setup will play the games in their native resolution though. You need the correct modeline with 496x384 at 25khz and you have to set the resolution in the config of the emulator.
Totally. I've got original Model 2 and Model 3 hardware running in my Blast cab and they look lovely. They are just hassle to swap so I'm going for a PC setup with CRT Emudriver, J-PAC, AttractMode/RocketLauncher/GroovyMame/Emulators etc. Combined with this I'm hoping that will work well with an Astro City cab I'm picking up soon.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 3rd, 2020, 10:44 am
by Endprodukt
That's great. We might could use your help testing the detection on original hardware.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 3rd, 2020, 11:03 am
by tronbaby
Endprodukt wrote:
June 3rd, 2020, 10:44 am
That's great. We might could use your help testing the detection on original hardware.
Absolutely, just let me know when ready.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 3rd, 2020, 11:10 am
by Endprodukt
Awesome. We are still refining and everything coming from China takes forever to arrive. I hope in the next two month everything will be up for assembly.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 3rd, 2020, 11:27 am
by FrancoB
Good stuff, looking forward to seeing the proto type :)

There is a (rarez) revision of the MS9 that has auto sync sensing/switching. There's a bit of information in a thread [here]. I don't know if finding out the specs of those relays etc would be of any use?

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 3rd, 2020, 11:33 am
by Endprodukt
FrancoB wrote:
June 3rd, 2020, 11:27 am
Good stuff, looking forward to seeing the proto type :)

There is a (rarez) revision of the MS9 that has auto sync sensing/switching. There's a bit of information in a thread [here]. I don't know if finding out the specs of those relays etc would be of any use?
Interesting. Would have been interesting to see how they do the actual sensing. But! Our solution does offer some cool additional options like manual mode etc.

Would still like to see schematics.

Re: Automatic 15/25khz switching for Nanao MS8/MS9 - interest check

Posted: June 3rd, 2020, 3:14 pm
by parodius
I didn’t know they were so rare, I bought one last year from a guy in France who sells recapped MS9 chassis, and I’m using it in my Egret 2. Will still be interested by your solution though.