Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

PCB problems and fixes
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Asayuki
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by Asayuki » June 1st, 2016, 1:10 pm

KaterKarli wrote:I did replace the 273 latch and the main processor is doing something , I got bus activity.
Great!
KaterKarli wrote:but after 1 second it resets the sound cpu.
Does the main CPU also get reset? Is the watchdog triggering and/or operating at all?
KaterKarli wrote:The Sub cpu is ALWAYS Reset LOW Never high ... Seems very strange to me.
On Main CPU Schematic:
The 244 and 245 driver are all replaced -> no change
the pal has on the Dir Pin of the 245 activity but on the OE of 245 dead silence ....
what does this mean ?
The main CPU might not be able to complete initialization, therefore it is not yet lifing the RESET signal to the sub CPU. In this case it is probably normal that it doesn't want yet to poke into the sub CPU bus.
I had a bootleg with initialization problems a while ago. The main CPU was running very awkwardly and getting reset by the watchdog after a second, before it had time to crash completely. My issue was IC27 (74LS32). Maybe that is the case with you as well, or maybe the data coming out of your program EPROMs is not good. Have you dumped the EPROMs already? Tried replacing the RAM?
My 15kHz cabinet Peplos will never power up, with any item, and I am quite proud of that.

KaterKarli
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by KaterKarli » June 1st, 2016, 11:21 pm

ok, that is a lot ...
Does the main CPU also get reset? Is the watchdog triggering and/or operating at all?




The main CPU might not be able to complete initialization, therefore it is not yet lifing the RESET signal to the sub CPU. In this case it is probably normal that it doesn't want yet to poke into the sub CPU bus.
I had a bootleg with initialization problems a while ago. The main CPU was running very awkwardly and getting reset by the watchdog after a second, before it had time to crash completely. My issue was IC27 (74LS32). Maybe that is the case with you as well, or maybe the data coming out of your program EPROMs is not good. Have you dumped the EPROMs already? Tried replacing the RAM?
At the moment I dont know if maincpu also resets. I will test it. Thank you for that hint.
a good LS32 is piggybacked on the original one on the pcb. - will test it tomorrow.
Eproms are completely NOS and burned and verified with the redux set (as I remember) - I should make a logfile on paper next time
Maybe the Eprom sockets are bad. I have to test this. Those sockets are now 20 yrs old now :(

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by KaterKarli » June 2nd, 2016, 3:22 pm

the main cpu doesn´t reset during startup.
the power on reset logic is only a cap, resistor and diode and seems to work.
then I switch on I see a short Low pulse.


The adressbus,rd,wr,databus is working.
the screen shows static garbage with blinking lines every 1 second or so...
MA15 working

the LS32 is piggibacked with a new one.
IC27 (H3 on my pcb) is working, I get Pulse pin 8 and 11 to the Eproms (CE)

The Sockets are tested with ohm meter and are OK

The 2kx8 NEC 664C make the same picture if its inserted or not.
I have NO Bus aktivity on the Adress or the Datalines.
Everything is LOW ?

I measure IC31 (ls 393) VBL Counter
NO live, I cant see VBL pulse on Pin 13
nor see pulse on Pin 6
So this watchdog logic seems to be OFF state ?

Pin3 of the IC38 (AND gate LS08) to MainCPU Reset is always High.


The 74LS240 is not tested this moment cause I waiting for a new one. (shipped to me)

Alls PAL16xx have activity on all output pins...

used devices:

ohmmeter, voltmeter, oscilloscope
At the moment I have a HP Comparator with no Zif Socket adapter pcb. They forget to put it in the case.
So this is not helping much... (some blank ic cards left)
I have no logic analyser Nor an Fluk 9010A or something :-(





SubCPU Z80 Reset is still LOW all the time ...

IF I switch rapidely On / Off the Power supply,
sometimes the Screen is changing garbage Screens like a selftest pattern
(0.5 screens per second) and then after 3 sec. its frozen again ...


hmm, Don´t know where to look further ....


Kater

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Asayuki
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by Asayuki » June 2nd, 2016, 8:44 pm

Very extensive analisys, well done!
KaterKarli wrote:the main cpu doesn´t reset during startup.
the power on reset logic is only a cap, resistor and diode and seems to work.
then I switch on I see a short Low pulse.
I measure IC31 (ls 393) VBL Counter
NO live, I cant see VBL pulse on Pin 13
nor see pulse on Pin 6
So this watchdog logic seems to be OFF state ?
Pin3 of the IC38 (AND gate LS08) to MainCPU Reset is always High.
Either this is contradicting or IC38 is broken. When your resistor-cap-diode network pulses pin 2 of IC38 low then pin 3 of IC38 should follow. If not, then IC38 must be replaced. That should happen at boot time.
Also, VBL comes from the other board but is not closely related to VSYNC. Check IC1 (74LS74) and IC24 (74LS20). You might find that someone just cut a trace to IC31 in order to prevent VBL from getting there; if that is the case, then you are almost certainly trying to fix a board that already went through a failed repair attempt. This was the case on the board I fixed, but luckily the previous owner didn't make much more damage than what was already there.
KaterKarli wrote:The 2kx8 NEC 664C make the same picture if its inserted or not.
I have NO Bus aktivity on the Adress or the Datalines.
Everything is LOW ?
Alls PAL16xx have activity on all output pins...
The work RAM is shared between main and sub CPU to make them communicate. The parts responsible for this are IC40, IC41, IC42 (74LS157), IC43 (PAL16L8) as well as IC29 (74LS245). Imho one or more outputs of the PAL are silent while it should show activity. Also try input signals WORK# and CLK on pins 11 and 17. If they are really working as you said then check traces and connections driving the gate, direction and selection pins of the mentioned ICs. As there is no activity on the work RAM, the CPU has no way of storing and retrieving data. Although it could be intended, it sound very fishy.
KaterKarli wrote:IF I switch rapidely On / Off the Power supply,
sometimes the Screen is changing garbage Screens like a selftest pattern
(0.5 screens per second) and then after 3 sec. its frozen again ...
hmm, Don´t know where to look further ....
Kater
Until the other issues are solved, I would ignore this for the time being. It is imho likely due to the missing work RAM accesses.

Keep fighting, you're probably very close!
Also, this repair is starting to need its own thread. We have hijacked this one for quite a while now... :P
My 15kHz cabinet Peplos will never power up, with any item, and I am quite proud of that.

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by KaterKarli » June 3rd, 2016, 2:38 pm

Yes. True. I should open a new thread.

I can short the cap + side to ground and the pcb resets. I hear a short noise in the speaker and maincpu reset goes low for some short time.
But the M-CPU runs and there are no Watchdog that resets anymore. But I don´t hear a melody nor see a
title screen.

Before I change the Latch 273 , the board resets Sound And Sub CPU accordingly every second. (pin26 every Z80)

And yes , this board was given to me as damaged in 1996... The Operator couldn´t fix it anymore.

Its really hard all those stuff. Very time consuming. I should invest in better tools...
i keep you up with progress.

thanks a lot !

Kater

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by VectorGlow » August 9th, 2016, 9:09 am

Does anyone happen to know if the treasure rooms and last boss are generally not supported on some/most bootlegs?
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Asayuki
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by Asayuki » August 9th, 2016, 12:26 pm

VectorGlow wrote:Does anyone happen to know if the treasure rooms and last boss are generally not supported on some/most bootlegs?
If you meant to ask how commonly one happens to find bootlegs which have been produced with smaller sized EPROMs then I guess nobody has a definitive answer, but according to the comments in this thread that sounded like a quite common issue.
My 15kHz cabinet Peplos will never power up, with any item, and I am quite proud of that.

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by VectorGlow » August 9th, 2016, 4:41 pm

Thanks, just wanted to be sure. Had to dash out earlier so didn't have the time to read the whole thread. :)
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by WhiskeyDanger » October 22nd, 2016, 7:27 am

Has anyone tried the save game without the level skip patch? I had redux+continue working great, today I did the save mod, and redid bb3 but when I booted up I ended up with a blue background, 'Super Bubble Bobble' title screen and some character graphics glitches. The game *did* save the high score, though. Any ideas what I messed up?

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Asayuki
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by Asayuki » October 22nd, 2016, 10:11 am

You need to rule out the save feature first. Try and reprogram the eeprom to clear up what the cpu might erroneously have messed up.
If you keep seeing the same issue, then you have a broken bootleg and therefore just a coincidence.
My 15kHz cabinet Peplos will never power up, with any item, and I am quite proud of that.

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by WhiskeyDanger » October 24th, 2016, 9:50 am

Figured it out. I went back to the original 3,4,5 bootleg ROM set (which appear to be mask ROMs) and there was graphics problems; these would change depending if there was slight pressure on the CPU board. Figured out its the ribbon cable that's starting to go. I had to take it apart to solder the save game mod.

The other thing I messed up was using the original super bootleg ROMs and applying the patches to that - amazingly it worked for the save scores function. Then I pulled down the bublbobl roms and patched those, which didn't work (obviously). The set that worked was marked as boblbobl.

Do *not* use the original base set ROMs (bublbobl) that are labeled
a78-05-1.52 (64k)
a78-06-1.51 (32k)
These are different sized than used on the bootlegs and not compatible with REDUX.

Use these: (boblbobl)
tetris:boblbobl$ crc32 bb*
01f81936 bb3
afda99d8 bb4
13118eb1 bb5

Thanks!

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by Asayuki » October 24th, 2016, 11:34 am

I'm glad that you got it solved. As for Redux, as far as I know it's a rewrite based on one of the bootleg sets with knowledge of the reverse-engineered microcontroller code therefore it's not that astonishing that your unwilling mixture actually worked out.
The bootleg redux romset itself is the amazing thing. :)
My 15kHz cabinet Peplos will never power up, with any item, and I am quite proud of that.

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by WhiskeyDanger » October 24th, 2017, 7:50 am

sugreff wrote:Hey everyone!

Just spent the best part of an hour reading over this whole thread.... lots and lots of great info here! I just purchased a bootleg Bubble Bobble from ebay and I'm waiting for it to arrive in the mail so that I can attempt a Redux on it. That being said, the board I purchased looks a lot like the other bootlegs floating around, but it has a Screened PS4 chip where one of the Z80s should be. Here is a picture:

Image

Anyone seen one like this before? I know on the offical boards the PS4 is located above the 2016/6116 ram chip, where on this board you can see there is a blank space for a socket/chip.

Adam
I bought this board from sugreff this past month; built a jamma adapter for it. The board would boot to a scrambled screen. When I pulled the PS4 it had a bent pin. Straightened that out, replaced it, but now it was a dark screen.

I ended up sacrificing a broken Arkanoid bootleg board to harvest a Z80 from it (heat gun and flux got it loose without damaging the IC), putting a Z80 in the spot where the PS4 was made the board boot to Super Bobble Bobble. I'll redux it up soon.

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by WhiskeyDanger » October 24th, 2017, 8:20 am

ramparts wrote:hi again

this is my pcb bootleg of bubble bobble after i socketed and changed the z80´s i got game running but with vertical lines.

does anyone has any info about these pcb ?, i know the 2018 rams are responsable for the grafic ram but what are the character roms? and their buffers?
Since i only had original bb schematics online those anyone has more info ?
I suspect it could be a line between character rom ,ram and buffer.
20151024_190401[1].jpg
Best Regards

JOSÉ
Jose, I ran into a similar issue on my board, made my graphics look like Atari 2600 style. It was a chip accessing the ROMs, on my board IC43, which I believe is a 74LS86; some of the lines were stuck and prevented the board from accessing the rest of the sprite data.
More details from my thread here: https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showth ... p?t=396690

Hope this helps!

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keropi
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by keropi » October 16th, 2018, 6:13 pm

bumping this thread a year later to ask if this bootleg is suitable for the redux treatment, I kinda abandoned the idea of having an original board for now :shifty:
thanks!
6Zz2Wvv.png

Asure
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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by Asure » October 19th, 2018, 10:21 pm

If i'm not mistaken, i had one of these and had to route a few paths to get the board to fully work. Something with an ls138 too.

Mine was switchable between normal/super versions with the dips. I'll dig into the topic because i think i asked for help here as well.

Edit:
I had the same board. Pics are gone, but check this topic page where i got it to work:
https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic ... &start=300

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by keropi » October 19th, 2018, 11:52 pm

thanks for the help Asure, I will try to understand what you did before getting this board :shifty:

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by Asure » October 20th, 2018, 9:54 am

The jamma edge isn't quite jamma.. i did some extensive rewiring to get that 100% compatible first. :)

Then the thing to do is replace the program roms with redux or that other one from Jao.
Get one with level skip, so you can test if the graphics for the treasure rooms are there.
That was missing on my board, but may be present on yours. Can't see if you have 27C256 or 27C512 chips near the bottom part.
Most of the time the bootleggers skipped adding a few roms, since that saved some $$$ and game seems to work 'fine' with those removed.
(Except then it's bugged in Super mode and when entering the bonus rooms / end boss battle.)

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by keropi » November 16th, 2018, 4:08 pm

Thanks to a forum member I got this bootleg board along with a set of pre-burned REDUX program roms with level skip so checking was easy :awe:
Naturally the end boss is bugged, there is no gfx data for it:

Image

I don't know how to check the treasure rooms gfx - how do you access them?

I am a little confused about my board - it looks like the one Asure has but without the silkscreen letter/number guides. Mine has 4x GFX roms, 2 of them are 27C256 and the other 2 are called 8700-A1 and 8700-B1 (custom mask roms?) The space for the extra 2 roms is just unmarked on this pcb.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I am unsure what I have to do to fix the missing data - the thread is helpful but almost all images are now offline so it's confusing.

Also dumped the original cpu roms, I cannot definitely say which exact bootleg the board is , DIP1 on SWITCHA determines if the game is "normal" or "super" version. Online Rom Identification provided this info:

Image

If anyone wishes to help please do so, really looking to make this as good as possible. Thanks!!!

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Re: Bubble Bobble Bootleg info

Post by keropi » November 16th, 2018, 7:24 pm

I am following joaoljr 's instructions, hopefully with some patching I will fix the missing gfx issues - I will report back when I do this tomorrow, for now I am taking notes :D

apparently all I have to do is socket the 2 27C256 gfx roms, replace them with 27c512 with the correct data and do this simple mod work here: https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic ... 72#p412872

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