Ghouls n Ghosts Not Working At All

[Missile5]

My (newly arrived) Ghouls n Ghosts PCB is not working At all

I use a Mak Strike V3 supergun. I also have Strider (another CPS1 game) which works perfectly. When I switch the supergun on nothing happens at all - no sound, no graphics on screen. I have used my multimeter (+limited experience) to check the TTL chips on the far side of the board are getting a good voltage (near enough 5V). Is there anything obvious that can go wrong with this particualr board and should be checked? I have checked the 12V and 5V input Jamma pin, both these are fine. The only thing I could see that was obvious was a noticeable scratch across a possible track on the bottom of the A board. I used the continuity checker and there was no break in connection here.



The seller has assured me it was 100% working before he sent it (It was sent from Spain to the UK). So if damage has occurred in transit, what might it be?

Thank you.

[ebinsugewa]

Are you using Strider on the same A board?

[Asayuki]

Transport = vibration, so you might want to separate the two boards, check that everything is correctly seated and that no part emits rattling sounds (what I call the "Kinder surprise" effect); expecially crystals and oscillators. Also look for loose patch wires. If you have a friend who has some better tools, ask him to check if sync signal comes out and if the cpu is running. Old electronics is sensitive to power spikes and can break when power is applied.
I'm just shooting in the dark here.

[leonardoliveira]

That looks like a Dai Makaimura board. Not Ghouls and Ghosts. I suppose you're aware it's the Japanese one, right?

A reasonable test would be split the board stack, split your Strider board stack too and connect the Strider ROM (B+C) onto the CPU board which came with your Dai Makaimura board stack to see if it is working.

[Missile5]

Thanks everyone for helping. I really want to get this working. This is the game I wanted most along with Strider.

Are you using Strider on the same A board?

No they have their own A boards. I guess I will have to swap them over though now to test.

Transport = vibration, so you might want to separate the two boards, check that everything is correctly seated and that no part emits rattling sounds (what I call the "Kinder surprise" effect); expecially crystals and oscillators. Also look for loose patch wires. If you have a friend who has some better tools, ask him to check if sync signal comes out and if the cpu is running. Old electronics is sensitive to power spikes and can break when power is applied.
I'm just shooting in the dark here.

Love your avatar. I wish I could afford an AES Blazing Star. One of the best games ever imo. I don't have any friends nearby who could help unfortunately. I think I will buy one of those logic probes though. I'll keep trying to repair it until it gets too complicated to fix myself. I'll separate the boards next and check the parts

That looks like a Dai Makaimura board. Not Ghouls and Ghosts. I suppose you're aware it's the Japanese one, right?

A reasonable test would be split the board stack, split your Strider board stack too and connect the Strider ROM (B+C) onto the CPU board which came with your Dai Makaimura board stack to see if it is working.

It was sold as a US Ghouls n Ghosts. This was the first pcb I ever bought but I did research the board numbers first and checked other photos. I don't intend to buy many PCBS so I want them to be genuine. Are you sure it's the Japanese version? Board number (88620-B-2) is definitely US version at least. http://www.arcade-history.com/?page=detail&id=951

One of my good friends (online) suggested to swap the boards but I am still at the stage where I am scared I will break something. So was putting it off. How do I separate them? is there a 'catch' to 'unlock' or do I just have to use brute force and pull them apart? A video would be ideal if you know of one online. I searched on Ytube but couldn't see any

[Asayuki]

Love your avatar. I wish I could afford an AES Blazing Star. One of the best games ever imo.

A very nice shooter indeed. Needless to say, an original MVS Blazing Star permanently sits in my woody.

I think I will buy one of those logic probes though.

Take one with a speaker, though. It is said to make all the difference.

Board number (88620-B-2) is definitely US version at least.

Board number is irrelevant; the important part is what is in the ROMs of the B board. But I'll let our CPS expert Leonard comment on this.

How do I separate them? is there a 'catch' to 'unlock' or do I just have to use brute force and pull them apart?

Just pull one from the other, but a little from one side, a little from the other; you don't want to bend the many pins connecting the two together. As the B board is fitted through 4 connectors which have a lot of pins, it will not lift without applying a little force. While you are there, shoot photos to show us: we might spot something useful that you might overlook.

[Missile5]

I have very good news. The game is now working. I found some very small debris - one going across the 2 bottom pins of a capcitor (not sure if this the right component name but the semi circular shaped one) and a tiny strange seed like thing on a pin sticking out from under the A board which was also touching another pin. (there are lots of pins and they are very small so not easy to see). I'm not entirely sure if these debris were the reason it wasn't working but it did start working straight after I had removed them. I didn't have to separate the boards (I was going to try that next).

Really happy now. Thank you to everyone for helping me out on this. Much appreciated.

A very nice shooter indeed. Needless to say, an original MVS Blazing Star permanently sits in my woody.

You just made me very jealous. I do have a MVS Blazing Star but I use it with a converter on AES. My 2nd fav schmup on Neo Geo is Neo XYX. I think this game is very underrated -partly because the Dreamcast version wasn't very good. I turn my TV on its side just to play it. Well worth getting if you don't have it.

Board number (88620-B-2) is definitely US version at least.

Board number is irrelevant; the important part is what is in the ROMs of the B board. But I'll let our CPS expert Leonard comment on this.

How can you tell from looking at the ROMS? I am interested to know more. I think this is the US version as far as I can tell (it says Ghouls n Ghosts on title screen).

How do I separate them? is there a 'catch' to 'unlock' or do I just have to use brute force and pull them apart?

Just pull one from the other, but a little from one side, a little from the other; you don't want to bend the many pins connecting the two together. As the B board is fitted through 4 connectors which have a lot of pins, it will not lift without applying a little force. While you are there, shoot photos to show us: we might spot something useful that you might overlook.

Thanks for this - saved. I will probably need this information in future.

[leonardoliveira]

I was wrong. Turns out the earlier Japanese version have eproms instead of those SMD Hitachi maskroms.
I saw DMxxx on the GFX bank select PAL and assumed it meant DaiMakaimura (it sure does but the JPN version is DM22A instead).

GnG is one of the earlier games so they did still make a unique B board for each release. They later sticked with a standard B board and unique per game C board. Eventually even the C board became generic. And lastly they made the B-21 chip which is generic (can be programmed as desired and programming is kept alive with a lithium battery).

Glad to hear you have your game working now, mate.

[Asayuki]

Really happy now. Thank you to everyone for helping me out on this. Much appreciated.

You're welcome. Happy to see yet another CPS working again

[Missile5]

I was wrong. Turns out the earlier Japanese version have eproms instead of those SMD Hitachi maskroms.
I saw DMxxx on the GFX bank select PAL and assumed it meant DaiMakaimura (it sure does but the JPN version is DM22A instead).

GnG is one of the earlier games so they did still make a unique B board for each release. They later sticked with a standard B board and unique per game C board. Eventually even the C board became generic. And lastly they made the B-21 chip which is generic (can be programmed as desired and programming is kept alive with a lithium battery).

Glad to hear you have your game working now, mate.

Thank you. I'm extra happy now it definitely is the genuine US version. I was a little worried because the board somehow looks a bit too new. The Capcom stickers have DM on too (not so noticeable in my photo), but I have noticed this on other US G+G board boards I have looked at since.

This is a clearer photo, that the seller took.



What do the serial numbers mean? are they sequential? I have always wondered if you can tell how many G +Gs and other CPS1 games were made from examining them?

EDIT: Looks like my board has been cleaned up a little. I found this earlier pic on Google images

[leonardoliveira]

Looking at your board with more attention it seems like "DM620" means "Dai Makaimura for board 620" 88 is the year it was designed and 620 is the board designation. Curiously it looks wasteful to use so many 64K OTP EPROMs. I suppose those are part of the graphics data which were not put on the maskroms...

[Missile5]

Looking at your board with more attention it seems like "DM620" means "Dai Makaimura for board 620" 88 is the year it was designed and 620 is the board designation. Curiously it looks wasteful to use so many 64K OTP EPROMs. I suppose those are part of the graphics data which were not put on the maskroms...

That's interesting to know about the DM620 and board number. I actually meant the serial number on the Capcom sticker on the B Board. The one that says DM00669. Here are 2 other US boards I found online with serial numbers. Do you know if they are sequential or a similar code?





From these boards I just noticed that my board has 2 chips numbered '25' and is missing 26. Hopefully an honest mistake at the Capcom Factory

[leonardoliveira]

Chip 26 is the Z80 program. If it was wrong or missing, you would have no sound. About the sticker, sounds like it's that particular game serial number.

[Missile5]

I'm still having trouble with this board. Even after I got it working it would normally involve me switching it on. Turning it off, Adjusting the voltage slightly on the PSU and trying again. It would usually take 3-4 times to start up. This made me feel it was very fussy about voltage (even at exactly 5V it won't necessarily work), or it could just have been a coincidence.

Yesterday however I couldn't get it working after 12 times. One time it did start but I (perhaps unwisely) decided the sound was a little loud through my TV so turned the volume pot down on the A board. The movement made the game restart and then crash and then I was back to trying again and again to start it.

I still think I could get it working if I tried enough times but it feels like it would be bad for the board to keep switching it on and off.

It also does a strange thing - when I turn it on, it will do one of four things :

1. Work fine
2. Blank screen but play a sound effect from the game once (I think the one you get when you die)
3. Blank screen but play a creepy tune from the game on repeat
4. Do nothing at all.

The outcome with one of the 2 sound effects is most likely.

Any ideas? I read if the electrolytic capcitors go wrong it can cause strange effects on pcbs. Could it/they be a culprit? or maybe a loose connection somewhere?

Thank you for any help.

[Asayuki]

Sure thing, but your experience makes me think more of loose joints rather than aged caps.
Try hitting the board on purpose while it's running. See if you can identify a more sensitive spot.
Also, look very carefully on both sides for loose joints (there are photos on the internet helping you identify them).

[leonardoliveira]

Complex digital circuits such as micro computers (the CPS1 qualifies as a micro computer) do require synchronization signals to operate properly (clock) and to make sure all chips start in sync there's a master reset circuitry, which cause all chips to start at the same time, in the same/known state. The master reset signal has it's duration defined by a capacitor on the board. As it charges (during power on) it counts a period of time in which the reset line will be held low. If the pulse is too short or is erratic the board will have trouble starting up as the chips will not be on the correct state for starting normal operation.

[k1ngarth3r]

EDIT: Looks like my board has been cleaned up a little. I found this earlier pic on Google images

That looks like my old board I sold last year!

Edit: It looks like someone stole my original picture - http://s376.photobucket.com/user/K1ngAr ... ort=3&o=25

[Missile5]

Sure thing, but your experience makes me think more of loose joints rather than aged caps.
Try hitting the board on purpose while it's running. See if you can identify a more sensitive spot.
Also, look very carefully on both sides for loose joints (there are photos on the internet helping you identify them).

Complex digital circuits such as micro computers (the CPS1 qualifies as a micro computer) do require synchronization signals to operate properly (clock) and to make sure all chips start in sync there's a master reset circuitry, which cause all chips to start at the same time, in the same/known state. The master reset signal has it's duration defined by a capacitor on the board. As it charges (during power on) it counts a period of time in which the reset line will be held low. If the pulse is too short or is erratic the board will have trouble starting up as the chips will not be on the correct state for starting normal operation.

Thank you both. I will look into these. I have ordered a logic probe and a ESR meter so hopefully I will be able to do more detailed investigations soon - test capicitors etc. I only have a multimeter at the moment.

I do know when it was running a few days ago I went to carefully slide the whole board and supergun nearer the TV and it reset itself and restarted itself several times. It was a slow movement and it didn't like even this. I have a feeling that any movement anywhere could restart the board but I will check for loose joints and try gently tapping around the board.

That looks like my old board I sold last year!

Edit: It looks like someone stole my original picture - http://s376.photobucket.com/user/K1ngAr ... ort=3&o=25

f that's 2015 - He can't have have had the board more than a year. Hope he didn't sell it to me because he had started to have problems with it. Arcade sellers seem a bit dodgy so far.

This is what the seller said to me when I told him I was having problems

Hi, this PCB works with a jamma standard conection in an arcade cabinet. I've been playing it many years the cabinet, and that's how I made the video before shipping it to you, so could see it.It was working perfectly here everytime I played it.
With the correct power suply 5v and a supergun it should work as well without issues (I also played it in my supergun before I had the arcade cabinet).
Did you test other jamma boards with your supergun?
Do you have someone near by who owns an arcade cabinet?

I've already had a Prehistoric Isle with no sound. I've only got 5 boards total. Only 2 have worked fully from the box.

It could be the cause but its too easy to blame transit for causing damage.

NOTE:He says he has been playing it *many years*. I guess not

I've already been sent a Prehistoric Isle 1930 with no sound and an Altered Beast with a battery that somehow went flat (so no sound) before it got to me. I've only got 5 boards total. Only 2 have worked fully from the box.

Yes it could be damage sustained in the post but seems an unusually high fail rate

No that pic was yours I remember visiting that page to get that picture to show people what the board looked like before. I just stumbled upon it after doing a search for ghouls n ghosts boards. Was just fortunate to find it really. The seller used this pic (same serial numbers):

[Asayuki]

Not all sellers are telling you the truth, but **** also happens. Check out this; I had a very unlucky experience here: http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Ghost%27n ... epair_Logs

[Missile5]

I accidentally deleted a previous post I made but I restored it. It case anyone wonders why they are being quoted in an old post. Sorry about that.

Sure thing, but your experience makes me think more of loose joints rather than aged caps.
Try hitting the board on purpose while it's running. See if you can identify a more sensitive spot.
Also, look very carefully on both sides for loose joints (there are photos on the internet helping you identify them).

Hi Asayuki What do you mean by loose joints exactly? Do you mean chip legs? or the joints that connect the A and B boards?

Not all sellers are telling you the truth, but **** also happens. Check out this; I had a very unlucky experience here: http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Ghost%27n ... epair_Logs

I've started reading about your Ghosts n Goblins board. Could also be useful information to know in the future when I get more skilled. Sounds complicated so far. Hope my G n Ghouls is much simpler to fix. I don't have all the equipment or knowledge you have.. One day I would like Ghosts n Goblins too. Great game also.

EDIT: Finished reading. Sounds like a nightmare to fix! Well done on doing it though. I don't understand everything fully but I get generally what you did. Do CPS games boot with just an A Board?

I have tapped at various places around my board but turns out that the tiniest vibration on the A or B board causes a restart. Even one time I put my TV remote control down on the floor about 10cm away - the game restarted. I tried to measure voltages on TTL chips just to see what they were getting and this made the game reset too!

I have my ESR meter now (no logic probe yet) and I measured the big electrolytic cap on the left side/ front of the Ghouls board. It has written on the cap : 2200 uF 25V . My meter said it was 2304 uF ESR=0.08 Ohms. The standard ESR for a 2200uF cap according to the chart with my ESR meter is 0.06 Ohms. Is my capicitor too high a resistance?

How do I measure the other capacitors on the board ? My ESR meter only has crocodile clips. So I need legs to attach it to. I need metal probes to attach to the clips i guess?