CPS2 battery life and replacement

PCB problems and fixes
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WilalvesBR
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by WilalvesBR »

Datasheet of Maxell ER3 battery:

http://biz.maxell.com/en/primary_batter ... et_12e.pdf


Datasheet of Tadiran TL-5101 battery:

http://www.tadiranbat.com/pdf.php?id=TL-5101


Datasheet of Tadiran TLL-5902 battery (closest model that seems to match the Maxell ER3 battery):

http://www.tadiran.com/pdf.php?id=TLL-5902


I always make sure to purchase fresh new batteries, those TL-5101 were new imported from USA sold as replacement for CPS2 batteries by a famous (but actually closed) arcade related stuff store.
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by vasilas432 »

Asayuki wrote:One would have to look at the battery's datasheet. Same shape and voltage does not necessarily mean same energy storage capacity. Depending on the price there are models with up to double the amount of energy (this is expressed in mAh even for non-rechargeable batteries).
Plus, you cannot control or know how much shelf life did the battery have to go through until it came into your hands: batteries degrade with time even if never used. Capcom probably never had to worry about shelf life: they orderd tons of batteries and could therefore demand a freshly produced batch with each shipment.
Now the battery in the photo has a marking "U-JUL-10"; was that meant to be a manufacturing date or an expiry date? :problem:
Bear with me, I am not trying to say that the batteries you purchased don't suck; they probably do. I just mean to highlight that, since some things are not under your control, you could experience a similar issue even with a renown brand like Varta. :(

As xodaraP mentioned, scheduled replacement is a good strategy. Too bad it costs money and time; but hey we already know how expensive our hobby is, don't we? :D
U-JUL-10 is the manufacture date.
I have used Saft LS batteries and they have month and year of manufacture on them. I have changed about 12 batteries a little while after I bought the boards and the thing is all previous batteries are still alive, I have kept them for info. Most of them are Tadiran with date 2007
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Chris
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by Chris »

I noticed regarding CPSII/CPSIII batteries that the sound will go bad weeks before the battery craps out. Reason is probably that the decryption chip also handles audio and in order to keep the encryption alive from a battery that doesn't have enough voltage anymore the audio gets dropped. So when your audio goes bad, it's time to change. Regarding brands, don't use varta. I had a CPSIII board die on me after only 3 years running of a fresh 3v varta lithium.
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by vasilas432 »

Thanks for the information.
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Asayuki
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by Asayuki »

Chris wrote:I noticed regarding CPSII/CPSIII batteries that the sound will go bad weeks before the battery craps out. Reason is probably that the decryption chip also handles audio and in order to keep the encryption alive from a battery that doesn't have enough voltage anymore the audio gets dropped. So when your audio goes bad, it's time to change. Regarding brands, don't use varta. I had a CPSIII board die on me after only 3 years running of a fresh 3v varta lithium.
Even if this bad sound symptom would be proven to be 100% reliable, it still means that one would have to test each and every single B-board every few weeks in order to catch it. A scheduled replacement of all batteries every two or three years sounds less time-consuming and more reliable to me.
With regard to the battery, I wonder if there would be enough space in the enclosure of the B-board for a bigger battery or for a parallel of them. That sure would make the decryption keys last longer regardless of the brand. ;)

EDIT: putting more batteries in parallel with each other requires a diode in series with each battery to prevent one strongest battery to try and charge its weaker neighbours. Given the very low current required, any diode will do; the smallest the voltage drop, the better.
Last edited by Asayuki on August 28th, 2016, 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zak
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by zak »

Is it true that you have a 10 minute window to do the battery change (without a helper battery)?
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by vasilas432 »

zak wrote:Is it true that you have a 10 minute window to do the battery change (without a helper battery)?
It took me 1-3 minutes tha change each battery. There is no point to slow the process and fooling around.
Asayuki wrote:
Chris wrote:I noticed regarding CPSII/CPSIII batteries that the sound will go bad weeks before the battery craps out. Reason is probably that the decryption chip also handles audio and in order to keep the encryption alive from a battery that doesn't have enough voltage anymore the audio gets dropped. So when your audio goes bad, it's time to change. Regarding brands, don't use varta. I had a CPSIII board die on me after only 3 years running of a fresh 3v varta lithium.
Even if this bad sound symptom would be proven to be 100% reliable, it still means that one would have to test each and every single B-board every few weeks in order to catch it. A scheduled replacement of all batteries every two or three years sounds less time-consuming and more reliable to me.
With regard to the battery, I wonder if there would be enough space in the enclosure of the B-board for a bigger battery or for a parallel of them. That sure would make the decryption keys last longer regardless of the brand. ;)
It's enough space in there. I have changed batteries on 12 boards 1 and half year ago and have kept all batteries in a place. All of them are still alive even some from 1993...
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Asayuki
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by Asayuki »

vasilas432 wrote: It's enough space in there. I have changed batteries on 12 boards 1 and half year ago and have kept all batteries in a place. All of them are still alive even some from 1993...
I'm not sure what you mean here. If by "alive" you mean that you are sometimes measuring the voltage of some batteries you have set aside once removed, then please be aware that batteries (expecially lithium based ones) have this funny tendency to show a good open-circuit voltage when unconnected, even if they are exhausted. That is why battery voltages should always be measured under load (when connected to the actual circuit).
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by vasilas432 »

Asayuki wrote:
vasilas432 wrote: It's enough space in there. I have changed batteries on 12 boards 1 and half year ago and have kept all batteries in a place. All of them are still alive even some from 1993...
I'm not sure what you mean here. If by "alive" you mean that you are sometimes measuring the voltage of some batteries you have set aside once removed, then please be aware that batteries (expecially lithium based ones) have this funny tendency to show a good open-circuit voltage when unconnected, even if they are exhausted. That is why battery voltages should always be measured under load (when connected to the actual circuit).
Ok I didn't know that, I thought they are ok if they show around 3,6v
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by leonardoliveira »

Chris wrote:I noticed regarding CPSII/CPSIII batteries that the sound will go bad weeks before the battery craps out. Reason is probably that the decryption chip also handles audio and in order to keep the encryption alive from a battery that doesn't have enough voltage anymore the audio gets dropped. So when your audio goes bad, it's time to change. Regarding brands, don't use varta. I had a CPSIII board die on me after only 3 years running of a fresh 3v varta lithium.
That's one of the most strange things I've ever read on any forum. :wtf:

There's nothing to do with the encryption battery and audio on the CPS2. And on CP3 for any matter.

Perhaps you should be checking your cab power supply as it could be killing your boards by delivering unreliable power.


Regarding the CPS3, even *TOUCHING* the edge connector with a key or screwdriver will cause the SH2 CPU to suicide, losing the encryption keys. I don't think you lost your game due to the battery brand being Varta.
Putting the cartridge on your pocket and trekking around the town could kill it, though. (Electro Static Discharge or ESD)
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by vasilas432 »

leonardoliveira wrote:
Chris wrote:I noticed regarding CPSII/CPSIII batteries that the sound will go bad weeks before the battery craps out. Reason is probably that the decryption chip also handles audio and in order to keep the encryption alive from a battery that doesn't have enough voltage anymore the audio gets dropped. So when your audio goes bad, it's time to change. Regarding brands, don't use varta. I had a CPSIII board die on me after only 3 years running of a fresh 3v varta lithium.
That's one of the most strange things I've ever read on any forum. :wtf:

There's nothing to do with the encryption battery and audio on the CPS2. And on CP3 for any matter.

Perhaps you should be checking your cab power supply as it could be killing your boards by delivering unreliable power.


Regarding the CPS3, even *TOUCHING* the edge connector with a key or screwdriver will cause the SH2 CPU to suicide, losing the encryption keys. I don't think you lost your game due to the battery brand being Varta.
Putting the cartridge on your pocket and trekking around the town could kill it, though. (Electro Static Discharge or ESD)
I have set my supergun to show real time 5v without pcb connected to it. When I connect a pcb CPS2 or CPS3 voltage falls to 4.80v when power on. Is there a danger for to games to suicide so I have better to raise voltage to show real time 5v when such a board is connected?
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by RMRM »

You have to set your +5V when the power supply has a load, otherwise it will allways fall under +5V due to the current that is beeing pulled.

Set to +5.10 without a PCB, then plug the PCB and adjust again.
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by vasilas432 »

RMRM wrote:You have to set your +5V when the power supply has a load, otherwise it will allways fall under +5V due to the current that is beeing pulled.

Set to +5.10 without a PCB, then plug the PCB and adjust again.
Ok I will thanks. Everything I threw at it worked fine but with those CPS suicide batteries you never know
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by RMRM »

vasilas432 wrote:
RMRM wrote:You have to set your +5V when the power supply has a load, otherwise it will allways fall under +5V due to the current that is beeing pulled.

Set to +5.10 without a PCB, then plug the PCB and adjust again.
Ok I will thanks. Everything I threw at it worked fine but with those CPS suicide batteries you never know
Just to make it clear:

The +5V adjustment won't affect the suicide battery. But you should always aim for the perfect +5V do avoid graphic/sound glitches or random resets.
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by leonardoliveira »

Some devices may have a protection called "brown out voltage" where a circuit watches the voltage supply and hold down reset or block access to the protected data until the voltage is stable. CPS2/CPS3 don't have that kind of protection. The backup voltage is supplied to the chips with the security data through a circuit with diodes, which means there will be never any voltage lower than the voltage supplied by the battery at any given time.

That means, in theory, that it's not possible to lose the data by starving the board of power while trying to operate it (the voltage for the security parts will never drop below the voltage supplied by the battery).

Word of advice: In a circuit where you're not 100% sure how it works it's safe to try to stay within the known good parameters. :awe:

Make sure you measure the voltage *AT* the JAMMA edge connector, not at the power supply output screws/socket as that will take in consideration the electrical resistance of your cab wiring.
Lest you fry your beloved game boards RAM/ROM chips (those are the first things that fry when overvoltaged).

Finally, the solution to rewrite security keys for CPS2 games is in testing and once it's out for the public you won't have to worry (much) about losing the boards keys. :awe:
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by FcoBenitez »

Guys, any link for a recommended replacement battery on Ebay? So I can use Paypal
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by Asayuki »

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TROLOLOLOL :awe:
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by Chris »

I got a sexy green cyberbots board in the mail today. Opened it up and it was still running fine, zero problems on its original maxell 3.6v. So i replaced the maxell with a tadiran and i was really surprised at the date stamped on the underside of the maxell battery.
MAXELL.jpg
Says October 1993. How crazy is that?
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Re: CPS2 battery life and replacement

Post by leonardoliveira »

Japanese Quality! So good that it risks Hitachi (Hitachi owns Maxell) going bankrupt. (Sarcasm, as I am trolling on the ones which leaked)
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