Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

PCB problems and fixes
replica101
Posts: 13
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 12:12 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Initials: PJC

Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by replica101 » August 8th, 2014, 3:00 am

Hi all. I recently bought a 2000 Sega Nascar sit-down arcade and have a couple of questions for the experts ;)

When I boot it up, it give me an "Error 3". I've spoken to a couple of people who think that this a fairly common problem because of the fragility of the Hikaru boards, and the rom board is probably at fault. Everything else on the machine seems to work fine - the monitor is bright and clear, lights, sounds, wheel, pedals etc. are OK. The system check reports no errors. I've run a multi-meter over it and the voltage seems consistent, but beyond that I don't really have the time, know-how or tools at the moment to properly diagnose it (although I do appreciate how concise and idiot proof the tech guides are on this brilliant site!!) Packaging up the board and shipping it across the country in the hope that the fault lies in the rom board seem like a bit of a gamble all round. So my quandary is whether to spend the money on getting it fixed up, or selling off the bits that work and making it into a mame machine of some sort. Any advice anybody has on the value of fixing up a machine like this, or suggestions on what the problem might be, based on experience with these type of machine, would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance!

coolmod
Posts: 65
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 5:49 am
Location: USA
eBay: hyperneogeo

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by coolmod » August 8th, 2014, 5:43 am

I'm guessing you are sending it to Ken. From what he told me Nascar boards with a F on the chips IC8-18 are prone to failure. How are you packing the board? If you pack it the wrong way, it will arrive with a couple of chips torn along with the heatsinks. If one of those falls off, it's a $250ish repair. If more fall off, it goes up. God, I feel like I've written this like 100 times but:

1) Hot glue all the heatsinks on the board down. Meaning, go around the heatsink with a glue gun and make sure you get all the areas glued down. When Sega had these boards made, they outsourced the labor and those people didn't tin the balls on the BGAs, meaning they will fall off VERY easily. You will see little dabs of hot glue on them and from what Ken told me it was a last resort after he told them the problem with the board. So instead of fixing the problem, they just put a little glue on it.

2) Don't ship the board as is. Take the board out of the cage and only ship it on the metal plate it's on.

3) Wrap it up in a ton of bubble wrap.

4) Get a big box and fill it with peanuts half way, gently put down the board and fill the rest with peanuts making sure there is no room for it to shake around.

DO NOT SKIMP ON THIS, If you don't pack it like that the board will arrive completely dead.


As for selling the bits and pieces, I'd advise against it. Nascar's board set's value is in the Hikaru Motherboard itself. The rom board and all the other little bits are worth nothing...hell a bunch of Nascar parts are on ebay for $20 and it's been there for months. A non-working Hikaru motherboard is worth less than dirt because of how hard they are to repair and since Ken is the only one who can repair it. Ken has like 50 broken Hikaru motherboards in his shop from what I saw.

Think of it like a Konami Bubble system but the opposite. If you have a dead Gradius cart and a working motherboard, it's still worth less than dirt because they are impossible to repair.

User avatar
andygeezer
Blue Skies Ahead
Posts: 2501
Joined: August 24th, 2008, 12:25 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Initials: AGS

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by andygeezer » August 8th, 2014, 7:46 am

If the bga chip falls off, then ken can't repair. There is nobody left who can put those bga chips back on.
Say hello to my little friend...
Image

coolmod
Posts: 65
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 5:49 am
Location: USA
eBay: hyperneogeo

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by coolmod » August 8th, 2014, 9:17 am

andygeezer wrote:If the bga chip falls off, then ken can't repair. There is nobody left who can put those bga chips back on.
He can, he has the BGA stencil and a $75,000 reballing machine in his garage. He showed me the process a few times I was over there. Quite interesting.

arcnl
Posts: 333
Joined: September 16th, 2012, 1:46 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by arcnl » August 8th, 2014, 9:54 am

So is a completely repaired and reballed mainboard better and less sensitive than a non-repaired one, or will it stay a recipe for disaster?

coolmod
Posts: 65
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 5:49 am
Location: USA
eBay: hyperneogeo

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by coolmod » August 8th, 2014, 10:09 am

It would be infinitely better. Problem is reballing up to 6 of em is a very long and hard process...which is why it's so expensive to do it.

User avatar
andygeezer
Blue Skies Ahead
Posts: 2501
Joined: August 24th, 2008, 12:25 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Initials: AGS

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by andygeezer » August 8th, 2014, 1:21 pm

coolmod wrote:
andygeezer wrote:If the bga chip falls off, then ken can't repair. There is nobody left who can put those bga chips back on.
He can, he has the BGA stencil and a $75,000 reballing machine in his garage. He showed me the process a few times I was over there. Quite interesting.
Really, sure he told me the success rate is less than 50%
Say hello to my little friend...
Image

coolmod
Posts: 65
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 5:49 am
Location: USA
eBay: hyperneogeo

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by coolmod » August 8th, 2014, 2:44 pm

He said now a days he doesn't like doing it because of some problem with the machine...like it was getting harder and harder to do it because of some sort of warping on the machine? I forgot what he told me exactly

replica101
Posts: 13
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 12:12 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Initials: PJC

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by replica101 » August 9th, 2014, 1:50 am

Thanks for all the responses, this really is a helpful forum. It seems like Ken is the man for the job - I will have to make sure I follow the suggested procedure and get it shipped out to CA. Is there anything else I could check before committing to this? I mean - is it possible there is another problem causing this kind of error? I would hate to send it off and for Ken to tell me that the rom board is fine and it's actually something I could have fixed if I'd just checked the (...insert name of technical part here). Cheers for your advice - it's genuinely appreciated.

One more question - does anyone know the approx. value of this machine, if working? I got it because it was a fixer upper at a stupid price, but it's not exactly my ideal arcade. I think if it was working I would probably play it for a bit and then look at trading for something with more longevity :)

Thanks again.

User avatar
andygeezer
Blue Skies Ahead
Posts: 2501
Joined: August 24th, 2008, 12:25 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Initials: AGS

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by andygeezer » August 9th, 2014, 10:34 am

You should not need to send the mainboard, pretty sure error 3 is a ROM board issue and relates to the serial number iirc.
Say hello to my little friend...
Image

coolmod
Posts: 65
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 5:49 am
Location: USA
eBay: hyperneogeo

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by coolmod » August 9th, 2014, 11:38 am

Yeah, your best bet is to call Ken and ask what he thinks should be done. Give him a call, don't email him (650-599-9792) Personally I only know the fix for mainboards that have freezing problems, which I doubt is your problem in this case.

As for the value, well it's probably about the same as any driver on the Naomi.

replica101
Posts: 13
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 12:12 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Initials: PJC

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by replica101 » August 9th, 2014, 4:24 pm

coolmod wrote: As for the value, well it's probably about the same as any driver on the Naomi.
...which would be? Forgive my ignorance, I just don't know a lot about these machines. I have seen an identical one on eBay listed for about $700... But it's been there for a while. Cheers.

coolmod
Posts: 65
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 5:49 am
Location: USA
eBay: hyperneogeo

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by coolmod » August 10th, 2014, 8:08 am

Probably around $350-$400. More if you are able to ship. The price usually drops like a rock when you can't ship it.

replica101
Posts: 13
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 12:12 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Initials: PJC

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by replica101 » August 10th, 2014, 1:38 pm

Thanks coolmod. If I do sell it, I'll try and do it locally. I'll be in touch with Ken on getting this board sorted. I'll keep you posted. Great forum - appreciate everyone's input :)

replica101
Posts: 13
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 12:12 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Initials: PJC

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by replica101 » April 1st, 2015, 4:51 pm

Hi all. Quick update on the NASCAR arcade. I haven't touched it for a while (it's cold in the basement!) but over the winter I did pick up a working rom board. I saw a set of boards (rom, comm and sound) for sale at a decent price. I preferred to do it that way than risk damaging it shipping to CA. Anyway, I switched out the rom board and it fired up straight away - very happy! Thanks to you all for the excellent diagnosis. After playing for a bit, I did notice that the gas pedal doesn't seem to go full powe though - physically it seems just fine, but it seems like you can't to 100% throttle in the game - would anybody know what would cause that? Other than checking the settings in the main menu, I haven't really looked around at possible fixes, but I thought I would ask in case anyone can think of anything before I delve into the machinery!

Thanks again for all the help - I'm so glad to have it up and running.

User avatar
thechop
Not as old as Ralph
Posts: 1307
Joined: August 24th, 2008, 1:17 pm
Location: Wubbly Wolverhampton.

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by thechop » April 1st, 2015, 5:05 pm

I doubt it's your throttle, Nascar has speed sensitive steering as do real Nascar cars (it's a simulation game)so it's all about drafting and turning the wheel as little as possible to get top speeds, once you suss it it's pretty easy to do, try to drive it like daytona etc and you get nowhere.
kernow wrote:
Cmon chop I wanna see your manly bricklayer arms.

replica101
Posts: 13
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 12:12 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Initials: PJC

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by replica101 » April 1st, 2015, 7:40 pm

You think my driving is the problem!? How dare you! Haha. Like I said, I haven't played with it too much yet, but it did seem that no matter what I did, I just couldn't keep up with the other cars, and it wouldn't accelerate past a certain number of revs. I have a lot of experience with sim racing, so I'm hoping I'm not just being stupid - but I will have another go at it tonight. Thanks for the feedback!

User avatar
thechop
Not as old as Ralph
Posts: 1307
Joined: August 24th, 2008, 1:17 pm
Location: Wubbly Wolverhampton.

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by thechop » April 1st, 2015, 8:33 pm

Yeah you gotta wait til your draft meter gets full if I remember correctly and nudge up a few places at a time, pretty strategic but very satisfying when you start zooming past cars in waves, seems impossible at first but you'll soon get the hang of it with enough practice :awe:
Less you steer the faster you get, the more in and out you weave in and out at the wrong time the more speed you'll lose, you'll soon get the gist of it ;)
kernow wrote:
Cmon chop I wanna see your manly bricklayer arms.

User avatar
thechop
Not as old as Ralph
Posts: 1307
Joined: August 24th, 2008, 1:17 pm
Location: Wubbly Wolverhampton.

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by thechop » April 1st, 2015, 8:40 pm

If I remember rightly too the feedback on this game is really strong on full, a real workout :awe:
kernow wrote:
Cmon chop I wanna see your manly bricklayer arms.

replica101
Posts: 13
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 12:12 am
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Initials: PJC

Re: Some advice on a Hikaru machine.

Post by replica101 » April 1st, 2015, 10:30 pm

Cheers thechop. Although I think mine is the cheapo version without force feedback :-|

Post Reply