sega sonic arcade the saga continues

PCB problems and fixes
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rodwod
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sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » March 11th, 2014, 1:12 pm

Hi
ok so i had this pcb working 100% with my trackball and with the help of some good people on this forum.

now i need you again :awe:

I'm not sure if its the trackball lead or pcb but i can't get the trackball to work anymore with
the game every time i hook it up i get the same results.

in the test menu it moves only in one direction (sometimes up and left) and when the game starts it doesn't move at all.

whats wrong.
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby KmanSweden » March 11th, 2014, 1:16 pm

A shot in the dark would be a GND issue.. Any loose cabels?
Also, is the trackball optical and in that case have you cleaned the trackball/rollers/opto?
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » March 11th, 2014, 1:28 pm

Thank you for the reply

I believe it's optical.
atb
Last edited by rodwod on December 5th, 2015, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » March 12th, 2014, 1:12 pm

It looks ok inside no dirt no lose cables :wtf:
maybe if someone could test my trackball on another pcb i will at least know if it works .
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby DESU » March 14th, 2014, 2:36 am

I would try to test the continuity of the wires going from the trackball to the pins on the board.
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » March 14th, 2014, 2:45 pm

Ok cheers i will try it
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby Shou » March 17th, 2014, 12:55 am

Sounds like the battery is dead. Certain System 32 games have suicide batteries (FD1149) and depending upon the game, the suicide result is different. For Sonic, it will boot but once you enter a credit, it just doesn't work right anymore.
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » March 17th, 2014, 2:07 pm

The game works fine shou are you sure.


I did some testing and i found this.

pins
player 1 (1A'2A'1B'2B)
player 2 (4A'4B'5A'5B)

XB = WORKS IN PINS (B1'B2'/4A'4B'5A'5B)
YA = WORKS IN PINS (B1'B2'/4A'4B'5A'5B)

PINS A1'A2 DON'T SEEM TO WORK
-----------------------------------------------------------
Directions on trackball

XA = DOSE NOT WORK AT ALL
YB = DOSE NOT WORK AT ALL

-----------------------------------------------------------

Ok it seems that some of the pins on the sonic pcb trackball i/o don't work and
2 directions on the trackball XA and YB aren't working.

When i first tried to get this working i had to use player 2 as player 1 would not
fully work.This now makes sense as pins A1 and A2 don't work.

But why can i only move in the test menu and only in directions up and left
if all the pins for player 2 work.

maybe the battery is dead :cry: .
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » March 18th, 2014, 2:19 pm

Would the dead battery cause the trackball not to work fully in the test menu?.
would it disable 2 of the directions for instance?.

cos if your correct shou and the battery is dead it would explain why i can not move at all when the game starts. cos before I'm sure i always had some kind of movement.

i would like to test another trackball first though.
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » March 25th, 2014, 1:28 pm

I'm going to remove the battery. 8-) and replace the security chips.
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » April 3rd, 2014, 3:02 pm

Battery replaced successfully but the problem still remains. :cry:
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby Shou » April 4th, 2014, 3:13 am

If it had already suicided, replacing the battery wouldn't help...
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » April 5th, 2014, 11:47 am

How come
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby Asure » April 5th, 2014, 3:10 pm

When the battery dies, there is no more power going to battery backed ram. So the information inside this ram is lost forever, the ram becomes empty.
When you replace the battery, the ram is powered again, but it is still empty.
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » April 7th, 2014, 12:24 pm

where is the ram located.
i have replaced the 2 roms and removed the battery the pcb never died anyway.

thanks
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby Asure » April 7th, 2014, 8:57 pm

The ram is located inside the plastic module. It cannot be reprogrammed, the method to do so is unknown, and also the contents to place inside are unknown.

Let's recap

1. An empty module rolls off the factory assembly line, and a brand spanking new battery is fitted. It's empty at this point.
2. The ram/cpu module is programmed by some secret way inside the sega factory
3. The battery can last a long time, but after 10+ years, it looses charge, and the ram is now empty again, as it is no longer powered.

Your board was already dead when you replaced the battery.
You cannot program it with new data.
You cannot open the module and replace the ram.

You can only wait until:
- A method is found to reprogram the ram (very unlikely)
- A decrypted program rom is produced by some wizard hacker
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » April 8th, 2014, 12:49 pm

Thanks for the detailed info .

but i will remain hopeful 8-)

But lets say it did not die would replacing the roms and removing the battery like i have done solve this problem.
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby Asure » April 8th, 2014, 2:21 pm

If it did not die, you killed it when you removed the battery power.

Since there is no change in the game errors, we can be 100% certain that the battery died before you changed it.
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby rodwod » April 9th, 2014, 1:04 pm

Ok i understand but I'm confused about what the procedure is for keeping the pcb working ?
i assumed it was just removing the battery and re-programing the 2 epr roms. :oops:

why does it only effect the player movement and nothing else ?
has anyone else had this exact problem with the trackball not working correctly due to battery death ?

I don't dout your wrong Asure but if someone could test my trackball it would put
this issue to bed for sure.remember the I/0 on the pcb never worked correctly from the beginning.
Last edited by rodwod on April 10th, 2014, 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sega sonic arcade the saga continues

Postby Asure » April 9th, 2014, 1:10 pm

The correct procedure would be to use two fresh new batteries.
One is a 'helper' battery, and only for the swap.

You solder the helper battery with some wires to part of the terminals.
Then you cut out the old battery, which is not yet empty.
At this point the board is powered by the helper battery, as power is never lost.
Then you solder in the new fresh battery which will stay in place.
CHECK ALL THE CONNECTIONS a few times to be sure all is OK.
Then remove the helper battery wires.
The board is now powered by the new battery, and you can keep it running on that for 4-5 years to be on the safe side.

No roms are ever reprogrammed.
The i/o could already be crap because the battery was on its last power..

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