Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

PCB problems and fixes
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Rossyra
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Rossyra »

I thought it was 402s you had? Those don't have the window problem
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Hokuto »

Yeah they are 402s. I just did it for **** and giggles, I've gotta try anything at this point.
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by trmatthe »

As I mentioned before I really don't think you have a problem blanking them. They're reading as 0xFF which is what a properly blanked EPROM will read as.

If you want to be certain that you can completely eradicate this as a possible cause, read a blanked one in and see whether the file is just 0xFF. If so, it's completely blank so your fault is definitely elsewhere.

I'd suggest trying to find equivalent pinout chiptypes from other manufacturers and seeing whether your progger software supports different programming algorithms for the other chips - if so try burning as one of those. It could be that timing is marginal on your burner so if it's using one of the fast algorithms it's falling over.
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Hokuto »

Actually I was considering the half erased suggestion because sometimes they would read at 0xFF, and sometimes at a different address such as 0x07. Anyway, after another erasure now they read at 0xFF, so I'm going to try out a different algorithm from another equivalent chip, see if I can manage to work out something.
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Elgen »

Most of the 16bit EPROMs can in my experience be programmed using the Classic Algorithm (50ms/address), even though the data sheets doesn't mention that as an option. But for some, it's important to raise Vcc to 6.5V during programming. The programming then takes like 20+mins/EPROM, but if your not doing mass production and just want a set of working ROMs for a game, time often is not an issue };-P
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Hokuto »

Elgen wrote:Most of the 16bit EPROMs can in my experience be programmed using the Classic Algorithm (50ms/address), even though the data sheets doesn't mention that as an option. But for some, it's important to raise Vcc to 6.5V during programming. The programming then takes like 20+mins/EPROM, but if your not doing mass production and just want a set of working ROMs for a game, time often is not an issue };-P
So this made me realize a previous mistake; the PSU I used was the correct voltage required BUT it was the incorrect polarity (the GQ-4X uses positive while the adapter was negative). So anyway, dug up the good 'ol PSU box and found a positive polarity 9v 200mA adapter; plugged that in the programmer and... no **** difference. I also tried the generic model device for a change but still nothing.

The only thing I'm missing is to try a similar chip's algorithm, but , I don't have much hope left seeing how things are going so far. :( I think it will boil down to buy other chips to test whether my chips are faulty or the adapter is.
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Elgen »

Are you absolutely sure that the EPROM(s) are not knackered?
When I modded my Top2005+ and programmed my own hacked software for it to do 16bits EPROMs, I spend quite a lot of time pulling my hair, only to find out, that EPROM I tried to programme was fried };-(

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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Hokuto »

No, I'm not actually sure lol, I think I'll just go ahead and buy some EPROMs. That will really tell if the programmer, adapter or EPROMs are faulty. By the way, nice work on your programmer, I love reading your blog! I'll send you a PM regarding some stuff I can't really tell where the fault are, if you don't mind ;)
Last edited by Hokuto on November 7th, 2013, 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Elgen »

Plz do. I will try to help best I can. I really like helping people rather than when they ask me to fix their crap for them. Then they learn nothing at all! };-P
Hokuto wrote: By the way, nice work on your programmer, I love reading your blog!
Thnx m8! *blush* btw new posts coming soon };-P
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by moh »

I had a problem similar to this just last week when I first got my GQ-4X. I would erase the chips, the blank check was ok, but every time i went to burn i got a "write failed" error. Turned out the legs were not making a secure enough electrical connection. I found a video that MCUmall posted, where they suggested wiggling the eprom back and forth within the adapted after its been secured to make sure there is no dirt between the legs and the ZIF socket. Then after that is done, wiggling the adapter back and forth within the main unit for the same reason. It fixed my problem, and haven't had a problem since.

Let me know if it works for you.
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Hokuto »

Elgen wrote:Plz do. I will try to help best I can. I really like helping people rather than when they ask me to fix their crap for them. Then they learn nothing at all! };-P
Thanks man, PM sent ;)
moh wrote:I had a problem similar to this just last week when I first got my GQ-4X. I would erase the chips, the blank check was ok, but every time i went to burn i got a "write failed" error. Turned out the legs were not making a secure enough electrical connection. I found a video that MCUmall posted, where they suggested wiggling the eprom back and forth within the adapted after its been secured to make sure there is no dirt between the legs and the ZIF socket. Then after that is done, wiggling the adapter back and forth within the main unit for the same reason. It fixed my problem, and haven't had a problem since.

Let me know if it works for you.
Thanks for the input man. Tried that but still no luck, though I gotta say the boards were damn dirty:
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So I guess it came down to buying another set of EPROMs to test them.
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by moh »

dear god...

those poor ICs :(
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Hokuto »

And you didn't get to see the X-Men COTA one! It was like a dirt cake, with spider carcasses topping it. I was so disgusted though, that I cleaned it right away and forgot to take pics :lol:
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Asure »

Brr. really bad. Hope this was not an expensive board!

Anyway, i tried _lots_ of methods already to burn those damn ST chips. Capcom must have done something to them :)
They are the only ones that always fail to burn, they keep looking emtpy. It's not just one chip, i have some trays of these now, considering to save em up to sell.

As to what to use/test: CPS2 used random 4096 compatible chips, and these work for me:
Mitsubishi M5M27C402K (burns fine)
Hitachi HN27C4096G (burns fine, hard to erase, i turn them 90 after 10 mins, takes 40 mins to do a full erase..)
Nec D27C4096D (fine too)
ST 4002 (never worked ever. Tried 20+ chips i think..)

It is not uncommon to find all four types on a board with say, 8x program roms. Just the ST chip bugs me and will never write. (all FF returned on check.)

Anyway, many people have issues with the ST 4002, but apparently, you can remove a capacitor in your device.. :)
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Hokuto »

Asure wrote:Brr. really bad. Hope this was not an expensive board!

Anyway, i tried _lots_ of methods already to burn those damn ST chips. Capcom must have done something to them :)
They are the only ones that always fail to burn, they keep looking emtpy. It's not just one chip, i have some trays of these now, considering to save em up to sell.

As to what to use/test: CPS2 used random 4096 compatible chips, and these work for me:
Mitsubishi M5M27C402K (burns fine)
Hitachi HN27C4096G (burns fine, hard to erase, i turn them 90 after 10 mins, takes 40 mins to do a full erase..)
Nec D27C4096D (fine too)
ST 4002 (never worked ever. Tried 20+ chips i think..)

It is not uncommon to find all four types on a board with say, 8x program roms. Just the ST chip bugs me and will never write. (all FF returned on check.)

Anyway, many people have issues with the ST 4002, but apparently, you can remove a capacitor in your device.. :)
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... ng-screens"
Nah, good thing they ran me cheap, 5 USD for both X-Men COTA and this lol. So anyway, the X-Men board actually has Mitsubishi 402's (M5M), I went ahead and tried using them but still no luck. About the capacitor, the adapter has some jumpers right above it where you can actually disable or enable that capacitor, so no need to remove it. Either way, tried moving the jumper settings and still no luck.
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by Hokuto »

Alright good news everyone, I just got another chip (AMD this time, AM27C series) and it worked like a charm, burned all good. Off to get more of these before the run out, and get those boards resuscitated! :awe:

So the problem were the other chips after all... any way they can be salvaged? Or are they gone for good?

EDIT: If anyone got to read my problem with reading the data off the chip then never mind. Wiggling around the chip in the adapter solved the problem :oops:
Now the ROM works as intended :D
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by frsj8112 »

Hi guys, sorry for waking a thread from the grave, but I've got some information that could be useful when programming HN27C4096's.

I was trying reprogram about 10 or so of my 4096's, but the GQ-4X gave me an error about every time.

Then I just changed the device from HN27C4096G to M27C4002 and then it worked every time! :awe:
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by leonardoliveira »

I have a TOP2048 Chinese chip programmer. It's slightly better than these Willem based programmers but ... I noticed a pattern here

Mine has a serious difficulty at producing good burns if the EPROMs are ST 27C4002 or SONY CXK27C4002 (they are all actually made by ST, even the ones with the SONY brand in them) and tinkering with the VPP voltage has a slight effect at reducing the errors.

I believe the problem is either a matter of programming algorithm error or a hardware design mistake (maybe the VPP is out of the needed range) and ST eproms as even 8 bit EPROMs with a similar large silver die (27C1001) won't program correctly too.

So maybe look for NEC or Hitachi EPROMs.

If your EPROMs are taking too long to erase you might be using a UV lamp with the wrong light wavelength.

Edit:
frsj8112 wrote:Hi guys, sorry for waking a thread from the grave, but I've got some information that could be useful when programming HN27C4096's.

I was trying reprogram about 10 or so of my 4096's, but the GQ-4X gave me an error about every time.

Then I just changed the device from HN27C4096G to M27C4002 and then it worked every time! :awe:
Funny, because the ones which work best for me are the HN27C4096(Hitachi) and upD27C4096(NEC)...
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by frsj8112 »

The 4002's have always been working on my gq4x, its just the 4096's that has been troublesum. But not any more ;-)
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Re: Help with GQ-4X w/ adapter

Post by leonardoliveira »

frsj8112 wrote:The 4002's have always been working on my gq4x, its just the 4096's that has been troublesum. But not any more ;-)
Then, that proves the devices have different programming algorithms.
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