Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

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Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by NoAffinity » October 1st, 2018, 4:57 pm

I picked this FF B+C set up, untested. Was hoping it would simply swap onto one of my A boards, and fire right up. No such luck on this one, but have found *I think* some interesting things. I'm sure caius or leonardo or some of you others will have good insight into what's going on here, which I haven't been able to piece together from my observations and research. :)

To start, it produces graphics glitches, and is confirmed to be the C board. I dumped some of the roms, and confirmed they are the US 900613 set. According to what I've found through various references (including below), US 900613 is supposed to have a CPS-B-05 C board. However, this one has the (presumably) factory relabeled CPS-B-04 C board - the number at the end of CPS-B- is scratched out and "04" is stamped next to it. with this C board, the B board runs, but with graphical glitches - distorted colors, vertical lines through the screen, etc.

I tested my SF2 World Warrior Rev D CPS-B-05 C board on this 900613 FF B board, and it works flawlessly.

I also tried my working final fight's CPS-B-04 C board, and it does not work on this 900613 B board.

Image
Image

Did some more digging and found some additional interesting information in the mame cps1.cpp file. It doesn't provide complete explanations, and this continues to be a bit interesting, given what I've found through testing various working boards with the parts from this final fight. From mame cps1.cpp:

Code: Select all

Final Fight (World, set 1)                                   1989  89624B-3   S224B            IOB1  88622-C-5    CPS-B-04  DL-0411-10005  None
Final Fight (World, set 2)                                         89624B-3   S224B            LWIO  88622-C-5    CPS-B-04  DL-0411-10005  None
Final Fight (USA, set 1)                                           89624B-3   S224B            IOB1  88622-C-5    CPS-B-04  DL-0411-10005  None
Final Fight (USA, set 2)                                           89624B-3   S224B            IOB1  88622-C-5    CPS-B-04  DL-0411-10005  None
Final Fight (USA 900112)                                           89624B-3   S224B            IOB1  88622-C-5    CPS-B-04@ DL-0411-10001  None
Final Fight (USA 900424)                                           89624B-3   S224B            IOB1  88622-C-5    CPS-B-03  DL-0411-10003  None
Final Fight (USA 900613)                                           89624B-3   S224B            IOB1  88622-C-5    CPS-B-05  DL-0411-10006  None
Final Fight (Japan)                                                ?          S222B            ?     ?            CPS-B-04  DL-0411-10005
Final Fight (Japan 900112)                                         89625B-1   S222B            LWIO  88622-C-5    CPS-B-01  DL-0411-10001  None
Final Fight (Japan 900305)                                         88622B-3   S222B            LWIO  88622-C-5    CPS-B-02  DL-0411-10002  None
Final Fight (Japan 900405)                                         88622B-2   S222B            LWIO  88622-C-5    CPS-B-03  DL-0411-10003  None
Final Fight (Japan 900613)                                         89625B-1   S222B            LWIO  88622-C-5    CPS-B-05  DL-0411-10006  None
Additinal observations through testing:
-This FF board runs perfectly with a CPS-B-05 C board
-The C board from FF 900613 will not run the SF2 WW that the B-05 C board came from
-The C board from FF 900613 will run SF2CE, albeit with the same graphics glitches that it produces when coupled with its native (FF) B board
The C board from FF would not run my 100% working FF, which has a CPS-B-04 C board (factory stamped as CPS-B-04, not scratched out and re-stamped); and vice versa, the working FF C board would not run the 900613 B board
-I replaced the Capcom custom on the FF 900613 C board with a CPS-B-21. FF does not run with the CPS-B-21 on its C board, I get a black screen. The C board will run SF2CE, however, with a drop shadow effect on some sprites. I'd say it runs about 90% perfect - the FF 900613 C board with a CPS-B-21, on SF2CE, that is.

If anything this has created more questions than it has answered. At the root of it - is this FF 900613 truly supposed to have a CPS-B-05 (it seems so)? Is the Capcom custom with the number scratched out and "04" restamped on it actually a factory mis-print? Or, is the C board just something an op or seller swapped on it at some point , unknowingly, and here I am try to reverse engineer someone's mistake (all data points make it hard to even draw this conclusion)?

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by ArcadeFraidi » October 2nd, 2018, 5:04 pm

Hi, the scratched custom on C board should be a CPS-B-01 or a CPS-B-03, if it's not damaged it should run one of these FF version:

Final Fight (USA 900112) CPS-B-01
Final Fight (USA 900424) CPS-B-03

not sure you can make a 1 to 1 replacement/swap of the CPS-B-?? chip with a CPS-B-21 they can have different pinout, by the way if they share the same pinout you can only mod the C board to force the CPS-B-21 to act like a CPS-B-01, some pins should be tied to vcc, maybe the pcb of this C board already do it, you should check it, but this is pretty useless for your FF. you can also reprogram the CPS-B-21 custom chip to act like any CPS-B but not on this C board you need a battery backed one.

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by NoAffinity » October 2nd, 2018, 7:54 pm

What throws me for a loop is the "DL" number on the C chip is that of CPS-B-05, and running it with the CPS-B-05 C board from SF2WW rev D, it runs perfectly. ^Good info, thought, this connects a few more dots from the info I found spread across multiple web pages/sites.

I did some more research, and yes, CPS-B-21 won't run it without modified code.

Does anyone else here have one of these FF C boards with the scratched off number? Would appreciate any photos that fellow members could provide.

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by leonardoliveira » October 3rd, 2018, 4:52 am

CPS-B-21 in battery backup mode is a joker because it can be programmed to work as any of the other B chips. :awe:
Image

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by NoAffinity » October 3rd, 2018, 5:32 am

leonardoliveira wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 4:52 am
CPS-B-21 in battery backup mode is a joker because it can be programmed to work as any of the other B chips. :awe:
As always, you've enlightened me sir. :think:

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by ArcadeFraidi » October 3rd, 2018, 8:37 am

NoAffinity wrote:
October 2nd, 2018, 7:54 MP
What throws me for a loop is the "DL" number on the C chip is that of CPS-B-05, and running it with the CPS-B-05 C board from SF2WW rev D, it runs perfectly. ^Good info, thought, this connects a few more dots from the info I found spread across multiple web pages/sites.

I did some more research, and yes, CPS-B-21 won't run it without modified code.

Does anyone else here have one of these FF C boards with the scratched off number? Would appreciate any photos that fellow members could provide.
Probably the B chips were scratched and rebranded by capcom/manufcturer due to a production issue, a batch of these B chips maybe have the CPS-B-XX silicon wafer inside but were misprinted on their surface this could explain why they share the same CPS-B-05 "DL" number, or maybe capcom try this to confuse operators when they tried to swap CPS game boards, or simply they have some stock of CPS-B 01, 03, 05 chips and they want to use them after an high demand of FF boards and they create new versions of FF to match the B silicon and rebrand them as 04 to visually link them to FF and hoping this way to avoid bootleggers/smart-talented-operators to deep investigate by code compairing of these different FF versions and understand what's going on inside the CPS1 copy protection ... or maybe all/none of the above ... who knows? :awe:
but this is my personal opinion of course.

looking at mame code you quoted i spotted this ...

Code: Select all

Final Fight (USA 900112)                                           89624B-3   S224B            IOB1  88622-C-5    CPS-B-04@ DL-0411-10001  None
...
@the original number (CPS-B-01) was scratched out and "04" stamped over it.
...
{"ffightub",    CPS_B_03,     mapper_S224B },   // had 04 handwritten on the CPS_B chip, but clearly isn't.
on http://www.arcadecollecting.com/info/cps-b_numbers.html

Code: Select all

CPS-B-04* DL-0411-10001 *the original number (CPS-B-01) was scratched out and "04" stamped over it.
Last edited by ArcadeFraidi on October 3rd, 2018, 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by ArcadeFraidi » October 3rd, 2018, 9:09 am

NoAffinity wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 5:32 am
leonardoliveira wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 4:52 am
CPS-B-21 in battery backup mode is a joker because it can be programmed to work as any of the other B chips. :awe:
As always, you've enlightened me sir. :think:
As always, Leonardo enlight all of us ... :awe:

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by NoAffinity » October 3rd, 2018, 3:04 pm

ArcadeFraidi wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 8:37 am

{"ffightub", CPS_B_03, mapper_S224B }, // had 04 handwritten on the CPS_B chip, but clearly isn't.
I didn't see that one. That is certainly interesting, as well. And I think you're right on some/all of the scenarios.

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by NoAffinity » October 11th, 2018, 11:18 pm

leonardoliveira wrote:
October 3rd, 2018, 4:52 am
CPS-B-21 in battery backup mode is a joker because it can be programmed to work as any of the other B chips. :awe:
Okay leonardo, I tried to find the answers on my own, so I didn't have to ask you for the answer all the time, but am unable to connect the dots. Is it possible to program this CPS-B-21 to operate as a CPS-B-05, and how would one do so? I'm assuming it would have to be put on a battery to start?

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by leonardoliveira » November 5th, 2018, 8:21 pm

We would need to manufacture the data for it to match the register layout of the CPS-B-05.

A board which supports battery and has been modded to run battery less will work(can undo the mod to make one run battery-less).
Image

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by NoAffinity » November 7th, 2018, 7:11 am

Would it not be possible to put the b-21 on battery, then program it like you would a suicided c board? Any way to easily determine if b-05 is identical to one of the suicide games?

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Re: Interesting Partially Working Final Fight (US 900613)

Post by sergiopolog » November 8th, 2018, 11:07 pm

NoAffinity wrote:
November 7th, 2018, 7:11 am
Would it not be possible to put the b-21 on battery, then program it like you would a suicided c board? Any way to easily determine if b-05 is identical to one of the suicide games?
Really interested in this. It could be a great way to bring back to life dead games that use odd B-XX custom chips and C boards, replacing them by regular B-21 battery backed C boards. :)

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