exA-Arcadia

Coin-operated games and arcades.
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Shou
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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by Shou » April 9th, 2018, 3:40 am

Chris wrote:Not including a jamma-edge is a design flaw detrimental to their cause. In japan it won't make much of a difference. But in the rest of the world it will make a difference. Especially in Latin American markets.
You can use a JAMMA JVS IO board for CRT cabs. There are plenty on the used market at very affordable prices.

We are looking into 15kHz compatibility but it will not come cheaply and will be optional.

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by mufunyo » April 9th, 2018, 12:32 pm

Shou wrote:We are looking into 15kHz compatibility but it will not come cheaply and will be optional.
15KHz compatibility should be native and not an add-on board, both from a technical and financial standpoint. Simply generating the right resolution at the source and downscaling the game on the GPU using software running as part of the platform is vastly simpler and requires only a few dollars in extra parts (a video amp).

Contrast that with an external scaler which would have to digitise the VGA, downscale the video in an expensive FPGA, and then output it back in analogue. Such a solution is unnecessarily complicated technically, and incurs a financial premium of at least $300, as well as adding input lag if you aren't very careful with how you implement the downscaling. Since as Chris noted, Latin American markets would be the primary target for 15KHz support, it would probably be cheaper(!) for them to retrofit LCD panels (urgh) rather than purchase a prohibitively expensive scaler board.

Please consult with Calamity about the possibility of a cheaper, more elegant solution.
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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by jase » April 9th, 2018, 7:37 pm

I for one would love to see a 15kHz option. :awe:
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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by zak » April 9th, 2018, 7:55 pm

jase wrote:I for one would love to see a 15kHz option. :awe:
I think everyone would!

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by Shou » April 10th, 2018, 2:06 pm

mufunyo wrote:
Shou wrote:We are looking into 15kHz compatibility but it will not come cheaply and will be optional.
15KHz compatibility should be native and not an add-on board, both from a technical and financial standpoint. Simply generating the right resolution at the source and downscaling the game on the GPU using software running as part of the platform is vastly simpler and requires only a few dollars in extra parts (a video amp).

Contrast that with an external scaler which would have to digitise the VGA, downscale the video in an expensive FPGA, and then output it back in analogue. Such a solution is unnecessarily complicated technically, and incurs a financial premium of at least $300, as well as adding input lag if you aren't very careful with how you implement the downscaling. Since as Chris noted, Latin American markets would be the primary target for 15KHz support, it would probably be cheaper(!) for them to retrofit LCD panels (urgh) rather than purchase a prohibitively expensive scaler board.

Please consult with Calamity about the possibility of a cheaper, more elegant solution.
1. No modern video card has analog output anymore.

2. It's not anywhere in the price range you are thinking of.

3. We have talked to plenty of LATAM operators, you'd be surprised to find that they are using LCD screens.

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by zak » April 10th, 2018, 3:04 pm

Thanks for the info Shou.

Hypothetically, do you have a ballpark figure for how much extra 15K support would cost?

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by mufunyo » April 10th, 2018, 3:21 pm

Shou wrote:1. No modern video card has analog output anymore.
That's a problem even if you plan on JVS output which dictates 640x480 or 1280x720 analogue VGA. But thanks for the extremely rude bullet point reply. ;)
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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by zak » April 10th, 2018, 3:28 pm

mufunyo wrote:
Shou wrote:1. No modern video card has analog output anymore.
That's a problem even if you plan on JVS output which dictates 640x480 or 1280x720 analogue VGA. But thanks for the extremely rude bullet point reply. ;)
I don't think he was trying to be rude. I think he was just spelling out the reality.

Would be great to have optional 15k support though, even if it isn't cheap.

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nem
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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by nem » April 10th, 2018, 3:40 pm

No operator can afford to keep old 15khz cabs around. There's a reason why TRY sold all their old cabs. It's just the very small collector market making a fuss over 15khz support.

I would be fine with 720p minimum :roll:

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by Jan » April 10th, 2018, 3:50 pm

720p is perfect.

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by RMRM » April 10th, 2018, 4:06 pm

nem wrote:No operator can afford to keep old 15khz cabs around
This is the sad reality!

They are just too problematic and expensive to maintain, at least for the small operators that are still around. They will all go the LCD route eventually...

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by zak » April 10th, 2018, 4:14 pm

I completely understand it from a business perspective and will support the Hardware regardless.

The option would of course be an added bonus/luxury. I guess we are lucky that it still supports 480p ;)

Wish I had the room for a LCD cab, but there is no room left for me (even after selling 3 cabs).

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by monouchi » April 10th, 2018, 4:17 pm

Any resolution is fine by me. Though a big thumbs up for 480P support.
Im just hoping for that game that really makes me want to buy an Exa. :awe:

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by SuperPang » April 10th, 2018, 5:42 pm

There are already many VGA-CGA convertors out there if you really want to use 15KHz. I believe Taito made one for the Vewlix and I assume Shou is talking about a similar OEM kinda thing. As above it's only really the hobbyists looking for it.

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by Hasuki » April 11th, 2018, 11:00 am

not easy to find a good VGA-CGA Converter without taking the chinese stuff. I am looking for one which I can connect to a capcom i/o, so it needs an RGB-Output with 15pin cable. All other Downscalers normally support only S-Video which I cannot connect to a 15khz Cab, at least I don´t know how to do that.
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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by Shou » April 11th, 2018, 2:13 pm

zak wrote:Thanks for the info Shou.

Hypothetically, do you have a ballpark figure for how much extra 15K support would cost?
Aiming for $100-150 range. Lower is of course preferred by all parties.

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Shou
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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by Shou » April 11th, 2018, 2:15 pm

mufunyo wrote:
Shou wrote:1. No modern video card has analog output anymore.
That's a problem even if you plan on JVS output which dictates 640x480 or 1280x720 analogue VGA. But thanks for the extremely rude bullet point reply. ;)
Not sure how you thought I was being rude by answering your questions with facts but I apologize if you thought so.
Majority of Japanese LCD cabs we have seen in Japan aren't using VGA cables and they aren't using JAMMA JVS IO either.
DVI cables from game hardware directly to the monitor are the norm.

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by Shou » April 11th, 2018, 2:17 pm

RMRM wrote:
nem wrote:No operator can afford to keep old 15khz cabs around
This is the sad reality!

They are just too problematic and expensive to maintain, at least for the small operators that are still around. They will all go the LCD route eventually...

Exactly this!

Operators here have no way to repair the Chinese chassis and monitors that were used in Egret 3, AW cab etc so those are all trashed or occasionally LCD monitors are put in them.

The Toshiba and Nanao monitors can be repaired but the cost is close to just buying another used cab. LCD cabs are also coming down in price and very close to CRT cab price (in Japan).

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by zak » April 11th, 2018, 2:18 pm

Shou wrote:
zak wrote:Thanks for the info Shou.

Hypothetically, do you have a ballpark figure for how much extra 15K support would cost?
Aiming for $100-150 range. Lower is of course preferred by all parties.
That's actually quite cheap (even at $150).

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Re: exA-Arcadia

Post by Shou » April 11th, 2018, 2:20 pm

monouchi wrote:Any resolution is fine by me. Though a big thumbs up for 480P support.
Im just hoping for that game that really makes me want to buy an Exa. :awe:
Hopefully THAT will be announced soon.

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