CPS2 ethics

[megaultrasuper]

This is pretty much the wrong place to be asking. Most of the guys on this forum are collectors, and original hardware purist. You'll get 90% negative replies here. I'm sure if you went to shoryuken.com or some other non-collector based forum you would get almost all positive responses.

"you can play it in mame" isn't valid for a game like hsf2. There are tons of differences in playing on original hardware versus MAME.

Anyway, this is a tired debate. It's been going on in the NES community for years. You can look up old forum articles detailing the merits of collecting versus playing and read for days if you want.

[Chi]

There are tons of differences in playing on original hardware versus MAME.

But not on those crappy 16-in-1 bootleg CPS2 boards and the like, or MVS 10,000,000,000 in 1 carts. If you want bootleg, you might as well go for the nice convenient ones and mash up less original hardware. I also don't want to be constantly on the lookout for worthless fakes (like is the case with MVS - I've been stung by that twice), as when I sell on a game I do prefer it to be in the same order of magnitude as the price I paid for it.

And, for the record, I'm not a collector (though I am an original hardware purist to a certain extent). I play games, I then sell them on (usually at a small loss) to buy new ones.

[cools]

While i can understand not wanting to publish that info on this forum, i think its handy to have the information about it here. Just what is possible and where to go without talking about the "how". Im someone who likes to play games but im less interested and updated on the technical mumbo jumbo. For me its handy to know these things are possible, before you buy that "cheap" $150 progear board if you know what i mean.

This pretty much the wrong place to be asking. Most of the guys on this forum are collectors, and original hardware purist. You'll get 90% negative replies here. I'm sure if you went to shoryuken.com or some other non-collector based forum you would get almost all positive responses.

Hence my original response. The information is fine, I'd like to see it available somewhere - secrecy about it does none of us any good - but it can't be available here because it goes against the values that the majority hold, and would appear we condone if not encourage the practice.

[idc]

Well I'm a collector, of course I prefer originals. I do own a HSF2 "conversion" simply because of that fact that, at least at present and for the forseeable future, I don't have the funds to buy the original. I'd rather have a bootleg than none at all. Maybe one day I'll replace it with an original, but at the moment I'm not prepared to pay what I consider to be a ridiculous price for one.

As for Phoenix Edition ROMs, they're good if boards are already dead, but otherwise I'd much rather just change the battery every few years. The thing I really dislike about the Phoenix Edition ROMs, however, is the intrusive splash screen and "Phoenix Mini Menu". Some would argue that this is a good thing, because it helps to prevent bootlegs being passed off as originals, but I don't believe that's true. Bootleggers just use them anyway. That's why I've created my own Phoenix ROMs without the splash screen and Mini Menu (I call them "Stealth Phoenix"), but I've never released them to anyone for fear of retribution from the arcade collecting community.

I don't agree with sacking non-Phoenixed, working boards to convert them to other games. And I agree even less with those f***wits on eBay (yeah, videotronicsuk included who was punting at least nine s***ty condition bootleg/converted HSF2s recently). However, if I had a board that was already dead, I'd have no bad feelings at all about converting it to another game for my own use, but I certainly wouldn't sell it for profit.

Like many things in life, if the conversion information were released, there are those whom would use if for good, and those whom would use it for evil.

[idc]

i would greatly prefer it if you technical whizz kids put your talents to a better use - such as a phoenix patch for cps3 :!:

I believe some MAME Team members have tried, without success. The encryption is built directly into one of the two CPUs (Hitachi SH2 I believe) in the security carts. The CPU cannot run unencrypted code, and replacing it with a standard SH2 doesn't work either. I'm not sure if it will ever be possible to phoenix CPS3 carts.

[thechop]

i would greatly prefer it if you technical whizz kids put your talents to a better use - such as a phoenix patch for cps3 :!:

I believe some MAME Team members have tried, without success. The encryption is built directly into one of the two CPUs (Hitachi SH2 I believe) in the security carts. The CPU cannot run unencrypted code, and replacing it with a standard SH2 doesn't work either. I'm not sure if it will ever be possible to phoenix CPS3 carts.

Oh T*TS

[wigsplitta]

as is said before...it's a shame to modify an original. But capcom chose to be awkward and obtuse.....so i say once something is dead, then if one has the knowledge to bring it back to life without having to pay a resurrection fee, then set the phoenix free!

[tony starks]

CPS3, god , I'd be on that like flies on **** if it was phoenixed.

I agree, also VH2 and VS2 can be pheonixed now.

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191453

I think I was probably the first person who owned a pheonixed VH2 and at the time (which was around July 08) Raz told me that there was a 50/50 chance of it working.

[dj_johnnyg]

I have a SF Zero laying dead in my Garage.

I'd love to revive it, but didn't like the "extras" from the Phoenix Edition. Also, when I had a couple of games Phoenix'd, I was offered the chance to change the region rom set of the game to make it Alpha.

I'd love to see how this can be done. I've been wanting to phoenix my SFZero by myself, just for something to do. I doubt I could convert the board to anything else, but if I could, then I couldn't be bothered, since the cart I have is minty, and would be a major shame to mess it up.

[cools]

Why such a fuss over CPS2 though? There are numerous other systems for which resurrection kits are available but the information isn't public, and I've never seen people after it.

[idc]

What do you mean with you dont like the "extras" ? All i ever noticed was a "phoenix edition" screen that you see for a second at powerup. If you mean the region change thing etc, you dont even see that unless you specifically enter that mode that brings you in the test menu. If you just play the game, the words "phoenix edition" at powerup is all you see. All the phoenix edition is furthermore is just patched, unencrypted original code running on the original hardware, unlike some other systems with crappy bootlegs.

Yes, the "Phoenix Edition" splash screen is what I don't like. It's shouldn't be there in my opinion. If the Mini Menu was still there without having the splash screen and its six second delay, I'd be slightly less miffed by it, but I'd be happier if none of it was there at all. If it's just patched, unencrypted original code running on the original hardware as you say, then the extra, unoriginal code for the splash screen and Mini Menu has no business being there.

Why such a fuss over CPS2 though? There are numerous other systems for which resurrection kits are available but the information isn't public, and I've never seen people after it.

Well that depends on how many people actually know about these revival kits. Enough people know about CPS2 Phoenix boards for there to be an interest in it. If some of the information for the other systems were to be made public, maybe there would probably be a similar demand.

[idc]

The 'phoenix edition' splash screen is to identify it has been phoenixed, you'd see a lot more boots otherwise that you wouldn't be able to differentiate without opening. I remember razoola stating it was put there specifically for this reason.

Plus, its hardly anything to worry about . you could always reverse engineer it out if you liked its hardly even on the screen for long.

Yeah, I did mention this before, but I don't believe it has much of an effect as bootleggers don't seem to give a **** about it and just use them anyway, with the Phoenix Edition screens intact. Otherwise, I'd say that "professional" bootleggers would know how to reverse engineer it out anyway!

If putting off bootleggers is your bag, I'd find something like this far less intrusive than the splash screen:

[SuperPang]

Why such a fuss over CPS2 though? .

Because its the bestest hardware evar

[dj_johnnyg]

What do you mean with you dont like the "extras" ? All i ever noticed was a "phoenix edition" screen that you see for a second at powerup. If you mean the region change thing etc, you dont even see that unless you specifically enter that mode that brings you in the test menu. If you just play the game, the words "phoenix edition" at powerup is all you see. All the phoenix edition is furthermore is just patched, unencrypted original code running on the original hardware, unlike some other systems with crappy bootlegs.

I mean I don't like the extra code being put in there. Why the hell do I want a Jukebox? If I want a different region, I'll go buy the cart for that region.

If the phoenix editions just had the splash at the beginning & that's it, then I'd be happy, but why all the extra crap?

[DandySephy]

See I look at my conversions in the same light as Neogeo aes and nes cartridge conversions.

Theres a big difference between physically moving chips from one board to another, and simply burning a new set of roms to make progear for $50.

[mainman]

Who here owns a full set of CPS2 mame roms without owning every board (and revision) Guilty.

Me, just kidding. I own the full library of legit cps2 carts

As for conversion, there nothing special about the procedure as anyone could figure it out. The only obstacle is going to be the pal chip. As long as you keep your boots to yourself then there is no problem but what will happen is people will not keep the boots to themselves. A friend of mines who occasional drops by my place for board repairs is a member over at shokenryu. He bought a boot anniversary for $300 from china which I informed him of, he replied by saying he didn't care so long as it worked, sucker.

[mainman]

i hope you have some A boards as well

Their right there in the pic. Like I said the only people who would benefit from the the info aare the one who would be interested in bootlegging for profit as anyone else has already figured out how the whole conversion thing works and has purposely kept it on the down low. I figured it out 6 years ago. I myself have written the truth table for 3 types of pal chips for cps 2 board but have chosen not to share the data.

[The Enigmatic Form]

oh god not that pic again

Jealous ****.

[mainman]

oh god not that pic again

Do I need a restraining order kernow

[idc]

Like I said the only people who would benefit from the the info aare the one who would be interested in bootlegging for profit as anyone else has already figured out how the whole conversion thing works and has purposely kept it on the down low. I figured it out 6 years ago. I myself have written the truth table for 3 types of pal chips for cps 2 board but have chosen not to share the data.

I wouldn't agree with that statement. It depends how you'd define "benefit". If you're talking ill-gotten monetary gains, then maybe.

The topic intersts me out of curiosity, as I'm a tinkerer by nature, I just like to experiment for my own amusement. I'd be very offended if I were accused of being a bootlegger. I loathe bootleggers.

I'd much rather just revive dead games back to their original title, but I'd still be interested in your truth table as it would save me doing the research you've obviously done yourself. Just knowing a little more about the technical side of CPS2 would be the only benefit I'd seek.

As I said, I've never released any of my "Stealth Phoenix" ROMs not because I am worried about it potentially causing more bootlegs, but I'm more concerned about people having a go at me because they believe that it will potentially cause more bootlegs. Sometimes it seems as though the hysteria over what could happen is far worse than what would actually happen.

Oh, and I love that picture, mainman. It's like porn. Congratulations on having the ultimate CPS2 collection!