Retro Scaler - call for input
- invzim
- Posts: 472
- Joined: August 17th, 2008, 5:26 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
- eBay: prrole
Retro Scaler - call for input
Hi, I'm working on a line-based upscaler primarily for arcade cabinets.
I have a working proto-type, and the picture quality for 15k->31k is really good I think, and meets my goal of "as good or better than the xrgb2".
Working on the second prototype, and thought I'd ask if anyone got any inputs on what kind of connectors/input the thing should have? or other features..
It's primary purpose is for use in a CRT cab which lacks 15k/25k.
I have a working proto-type, and the picture quality for 15k->31k is really good I think, and meets my goal of "as good or better than the xrgb2".
Working on the second prototype, and thought I'd ask if anyone got any inputs on what kind of connectors/input the thing should have? or other features..
It's primary purpose is for use in a CRT cab which lacks 15k/25k.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
I make and sell cool Arcade stuff, check out https://irkenlabs.com/ - In The Name of Science!
- trev1976
- Posts: 871
- Joined: March 30th, 2009, 7:17 pm
- Location: Southampton
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
Rgb scart would be nice for consoles
Check out my "1cc" YouTube Channel
YouTube
YouTube
- invzim
- Posts: 472
- Joined: August 17th, 2008, 5:26 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
- eBay: prrole
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
The PCB in my scaler is 4 layer, which is way more expensive than 'normal hobby projects' that use 2 layer - so I need to keep it as small as possible, and the SCART connector is simply too big.
Also - the main focus of this scaler is Jamma -> 31k CRT.
For it to be usable with the Namco/Konami JVS2JAMMA boards I need a 'low level rgb' input, basically same as consoles, so I may add a smaller mini-din-8 with same pinout as the xrgb mini frame-meister, so consoles can be connected easoily.
Which consoles did you have in mind for for what kind of setup?
Also - the main focus of this scaler is Jamma -> 31k CRT.
For it to be usable with the Namco/Konami JVS2JAMMA boards I need a 'low level rgb' input, basically same as consoles, so I may add a smaller mini-din-8 with same pinout as the xrgb mini frame-meister, so consoles can be connected easoily.
Which consoles did you have in mind for for what kind of setup?
I make and sell cool Arcade stuff, check out https://irkenlabs.com/ - In The Name of Science!
- cools
- Armed Police Buttrider
- Posts: 13457
- Joined: August 17th, 2008, 4:49 pm
- Location: Wales, United Kingdom
- eBay: hordarian
- Initials: CLS
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
Adjustable scanline intensity?
- trev1976
- Posts: 871
- Joined: March 30th, 2009, 7:17 pm
- Location: Southampton
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
Saturn is a nice one for arcade quality ports
Dreamcast too but most games are 480I
Dreamcast too but most games are 480I
Check out my "1cc" YouTube Channel
YouTube
YouTube
- mufunyo
- Posts: 648
- Joined: August 21st, 2008, 12:26 am
- Location: Eindhoven, NL
- eBay: mufunyo
- Initials: MUF
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
So, an option to interpret 480i as 240p prior to scan doubling?trev1976 wrote:Dreamcast too but most games are 480I
- invzim
- Posts: 472
- Joined: August 17th, 2008, 5:26 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
- eBay: prrole
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
Yeah, that one is pretty much a givencools wrote:Adjustable scanline intensity?
I make and sell cool Arcade stuff, check out https://irkenlabs.com/ - In The Name of Science!
- trev1976
- Posts: 871
- Joined: March 30th, 2009, 7:17 pm
- Location: Southampton
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
Well that would be nicemufunyo wrote:So, an option to interpret 480i as 240p prior to scan doubling?trev1976 wrote:Dreamcast too but most games are 480I
Check out my "1cc" YouTube Channel
YouTube
YouTube
- LEGENOARYNINLIA
- Kameo-ken
- Posts: 3429
- Joined: March 19th, 2012, 7:22 am
- Location: Finland
- eBay: ⸨◺_◿⸩
- Contact:
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
I have a simple question. Is there lag?
Emulation's nice when done well
- invzim
- Posts: 472
- Joined: August 17th, 2008, 5:26 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
- eBay: prrole
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
It's line based - so lag is zero. I don't think I'll treat interlaced video in any special fashion, at least not at first. I tried mr.Driller (g or 2?) which is interlaced, and it looks about the same as the xrgb2.
I make and sell cool Arcade stuff, check out https://irkenlabs.com/ - In The Name of Science!
- copados33
- Please Continue...
- Posts: 538
- Joined: March 20th, 2013, 1:30 pm
- Location: Uruguay South America
- eBay: psycho-q
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
An option for "triple size" would be nice too, that way you can offer this board to those people with HD cabs such as Vewlix's, Lindbergh, Noir and such. I know an option like this is possible since the OSSC already does that, but that device is aimed for retro console gaming on a HDTV's.
- keropi
- Please Continue...
- Posts: 294
- Joined: January 14th, 2016, 6:04 pm
- Location: Greece
- eBay: sainshov
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
what about adding a header for 15khz RGB signals? then one could make an adapter and connect scart devices for example... even home computers or whatever else is 15k
- invzim
- Posts: 472
- Joined: August 17th, 2008, 5:26 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
- eBay: prrole
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
That is the idea with the mini-din-8, so you can just get something like this:keropi wrote:what about adding a header for 15khz RGB signals? then one could make an adapter and connect scart devices for example... even home computers or whatever else is 15k
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/mic ... r-for-sale
Another option is to use a JST-XH header, as you can get cables easily - but most people prefer not to hack up their own, I think?
I make and sell cool Arcade stuff, check out https://irkenlabs.com/ - In The Name of Science!
- Shadolf
- Posts: 287
- Joined: November 6th, 2014, 12:20 pm
- Location: South Germany
- eBay: 1984indigo
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
What about Saturn? I have the impression a lot of games have interlaced videosignals. A lot of flickering and bad picture quality.
Could be my cable too, but I tried 3 RGB scartcables and I have 2 PAL- Saturns.
EDIT: Could be another Problem (http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=28141).
I would vote for Saturn, PSone, PS2 and Dreamcast. Although Dreamcast could be conected via VGA for a lot of games.
Could be my cable too, but I tried 3 RGB scartcables and I have 2 PAL- Saturns.
EDIT: Could be another Problem (http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=28141).
That would be nice. Autofunction included.So, an option to interpret 480i as 240p prior to scan doubling?
I would vote for Saturn, PSone, PS2 and Dreamcast. Although Dreamcast could be conected via VGA for a lot of games.
- copados33
- Please Continue...
- Posts: 538
- Joined: March 20th, 2013, 1:30 pm
- Location: Uruguay South America
- eBay: psycho-q
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
mufunyo wrote: So, an option to interpret 480i as 240p prior to scan doubling?
Only if it can be achieved without flickering, I have a device that already does that but it becomes unberable after a few minutes of use.
- Shadolf
- Posts: 287
- Joined: November 6th, 2014, 12:20 pm
- Location: South Germany
- eBay: 1984indigo
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
Ok, just read some stuff about videomodes of Saturn etc. Someone said commercial Saturn only outputs RGB in interlaced mode (15khz). So I think this is my problem.
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1838.0
So what I would like is something that can connect consoles, PCB and PC via Jamma to a 31khz Monitor (Arcade or VGA capable TV) and give me a nice flickerfree image with scanlines and all that without lag.
Especially connecting the before mentioned consoles. I have a lot of VGA capable TV´s, the problem with them is they are 100Hz and you don´t get scanlines with them, even when you connect via scart. So your device could solve this right?
Using the device on a 15khz monitor to convert interlaced signals to progressive would also be a nice option.
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1838.0
So what I would like is something that can connect consoles, PCB and PC via Jamma to a 31khz Monitor (Arcade or VGA capable TV) and give me a nice flickerfree image with scanlines and all that without lag.
Especially connecting the before mentioned consoles. I have a lot of VGA capable TV´s, the problem with them is they are 100Hz and you don´t get scanlines with them, even when you connect via scart. So your device could solve this right?
Using the device on a 15khz monitor to convert interlaced signals to progressive would also be a nice option.
My problem is the flickering is unberable alright.copados33 wrote:mufunyo wrote: So, an option to interpret 480i as 240p prior to scan doubling?
Only if it can be achieved without flickering, I have a device that already does that but it becomes unberable after a few minutes of use.
- mufunyo
- Posts: 648
- Joined: August 21st, 2008, 12:26 am
- Location: Eindhoven, NL
- eBay: mufunyo
- Initials: MUF
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
Whether or not it flickers will depend on how the consoles outputs the scanlines. If the lines are just doubled and then sampled alternately on the interlaced output, there will be no flicker. If there is any kind of blurring or resampling going on then the output will flicker.copados33 wrote:Only if it can be achieved without flickering, I have a device that already does that but it becomes unberable after a few minutes of use.
- copados33
- Please Continue...
- Posts: 538
- Joined: March 20th, 2013, 1:30 pm
- Location: Uruguay South America
- eBay: psycho-q
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
Then that deinterlacing method is not suitable for PS2, almost 90% of its catalog use some kind of filter or dithering.
- trev1976
- Posts: 871
- Joined: March 30th, 2009, 7:17 pm
- Location: Southampton
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
Saturn outputs in 240p via RGB.. well the games I have played do anyway..
Check out my "1cc" YouTube Channel
YouTube
YouTube
- Shadolf
- Posts: 287
- Joined: November 6th, 2014, 12:20 pm
- Location: South Germany
- eBay: 1984indigo
Re: Retro Scaler - call for input
A pass through for 31khz Signal would be nice. This way one could use a 31khz Monitor as a "on the fly" dualsync.
One could connect a GroovyMAME PC and play all the 15khz Games with scanlines and one could play NAOMI/Dreamcast/PS2 Emulated stuff at 31khz VGA.
The guy who explained Saturn Videomodes said:
"But non dev Saturn have a Sony CXA... chip who does not support progressive ouput. For this, you must use a Navi Saturn or Saturn devkit (old and new)."
For me that sounds that no consumer Saturn is capable of 240p output.
One could connect a GroovyMAME PC and play all the 15khz Games with scanlines and one could play NAOMI/Dreamcast/PS2 Emulated stuff at 31khz VGA.
The guy who explained Saturn Videomodes said:
"But non dev Saturn have a Sony CXA... chip who does not support progressive ouput. For this, you must use a Navi Saturn or Saturn devkit (old and new)."
For me that sounds that no consumer Saturn is capable of 240p output.
When you are right, I don´t understand why I get such a bad Image, while the image of PSone etc. is just fine (flickers way less).Saturn outputs in 240p via RGB.. well the games I have played do anyway..