Retro Scaler - call for input

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invzim
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Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by invzim »

Hi, I'm working on a line-based upscaler primarily for arcade cabinets.
I have a working proto-type, and the picture quality for 15k->31k is really good I think, and meets my goal of "as good or better than the xrgb2".

Working on the second prototype, and thought I'd ask if anyone got any inputs on what kind of connectors/input the thing should have? or other features..

It's primary purpose is for use in a CRT cab which lacks 15k/25k.
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by trev1976 »

Rgb scart would be nice for consoles
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by invzim »

The PCB in my scaler is 4 layer, which is way more expensive than 'normal hobby projects' that use 2 layer - so I need to keep it as small as possible, and the SCART connector is simply too big.
Also - the main focus of this scaler is Jamma -> 31k CRT.

For it to be usable with the Namco/Konami JVS2JAMMA boards I need a 'low level rgb' input, basically same as consoles, so I may add a smaller mini-din-8 with same pinout as the xrgb mini frame-meister, so consoles can be connected easoily.

Which consoles did you have in mind for for what kind of setup?
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by cools »

Adjustable scanline intensity?
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by trev1976 »

Saturn is a nice one for arcade quality ports

Dreamcast too but most games are 480I :(
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by mufunyo »

trev1976 wrote:Dreamcast too but most games are 480I :(
So, an option to interpret 480i as 240p prior to scan doubling?
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by invzim »

cools wrote:Adjustable scanline intensity?
Yeah, that one is pretty much a given :)
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by trev1976 »

mufunyo wrote:
trev1976 wrote:Dreamcast too but most games are 480I :(
So, an option to interpret 480i as 240p prior to scan doubling?
Well that would be nice
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by LEGENOARYNINLIA »

I have a simple question. Is there lag?
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by invzim »

It's line based - so lag is zero. I don't think I'll treat interlaced video in any special fashion, at least not at first. I tried mr.Driller (g or 2?) which is interlaced, and it looks about the same as the xrgb2.
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by copados33 »

An option for "triple size" would be nice too, that way you can offer this board to those people with HD cabs such as Vewlix's, Lindbergh, Noir and such. I know an option like this is possible since the OSSC already does that, but that device is aimed for retro console gaming on a HDTV's.
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by keropi »

what about adding a header for 15khz RGB signals? then one could make an adapter and connect scart devices for example... even home computers or whatever else is 15k
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by invzim »

keropi wrote:what about adding a header for 15khz RGB signals? then one could make an adapter and connect scart devices for example... even home computers or whatever else is 15k
That is the idea with the mini-din-8, so you can just get something like this:

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/mic ... r-for-sale

Another option is to use a JST-XH header, as you can get cables easily - but most people prefer not to hack up their own, I think?
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by Shadolf »

What about Saturn? I have the impression a lot of games have interlaced videosignals. A lot of flickering and bad picture quality.
Could be my cable too, but I tried 3 RGB scartcables and I have 2 PAL- Saturns.
EDIT: Could be another Problem (http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?showtopic=28141).

So, an option to interpret 480i as 240p prior to scan doubling?
That would be nice. Autofunction included.
I would vote for Saturn, PSone, PS2 and Dreamcast. Although Dreamcast could be conected via VGA for a lot of games.
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by copados33 »

mufunyo wrote: So, an option to interpret 480i as 240p prior to scan doubling?

Only if it can be achieved without flickering, I have a device that already does that but it becomes unberable after a few minutes of use.
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by Shadolf »

Ok, just read some stuff about videomodes of Saturn etc. Someone said commercial Saturn only outputs RGB in interlaced mode (15khz). So I think this is my problem.
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1838.0

So what I would like is something that can connect consoles, PCB and PC via Jamma to a 31khz Monitor (Arcade or VGA capable TV) and give me a nice flickerfree image with scanlines and all that without lag.
Especially connecting the before mentioned consoles. I have a lot of VGA capable TV´s, the problem with them is they are 100Hz and you don´t get scanlines with them, even when you connect via scart. So your device could solve this right?
Using the device on a 15khz monitor to convert interlaced signals to progressive would also be a nice option.

copados33 wrote:
mufunyo wrote: So, an option to interpret 480i as 240p prior to scan doubling?

Only if it can be achieved without flickering, I have a device that already does that but it becomes unberable after a few minutes of use.
My problem is the flickering is unberable alright.
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by mufunyo »

copados33 wrote:Only if it can be achieved without flickering, I have a device that already does that but it becomes unberable after a few minutes of use.
Whether or not it flickers will depend on how the consoles outputs the scanlines. If the lines are just doubled and then sampled alternately on the interlaced output, there will be no flicker. If there is any kind of blurring or resampling going on then the output will flicker.
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by copados33 »

Then that deinterlacing method is not suitable for PS2, almost 90% of its catalog use some kind of filter or dithering.
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by trev1976 »

Saturn outputs in 240p via RGB.. well the games I have played do anyway..
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Re: Retro Scaler - call for input

Post by Shadolf »

A pass through for 31khz Signal would be nice. This way one could use a 31khz Monitor as a "on the fly" dualsync.
One could connect a GroovyMAME PC and play all the 15khz Games with scanlines and one could play NAOMI/Dreamcast/PS2 Emulated stuff at 31khz VGA.

The guy who explained Saturn Videomodes said:
"But non dev Saturn have a Sony CXA... chip who does not support progressive ouput. For this, you must use a Navi Saturn or Saturn devkit (old and new)."
For me that sounds that no consumer Saturn is capable of 240p output.
Saturn outputs in 240p via RGB.. well the games I have played do anyway..
When you are right, I don´t understand why I get such a bad Image, while the image of PSone etc. is just fine (flickers way less).
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