NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

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grantspain
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by grantspain »

you need an inductance meter to read a yoke :geek:
you go sticking a nanao ms8-26 on a standard tv low impedence yoke watch the smoke
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by PrincessPrinPrin »

uncletom wrote:Infact I think that Grundig TVs use Philips CRTs, no?
Videocolor tubes are often used in Grundig TVs.
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uncletom
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by uncletom »

.. oh? Thank you Prinprin. That's good info. I do remember looking into my old Grundig hm..72 something, years ago before binning it. And I think it was a Videocolo label on there. This was before my great interest in CRTs, sorry to say. But the reason I was throwing the TV was that its picture was varying sporadically between redish and normal color tone. I never attempted any repair.

Ofcourse you must also be aware of the yoke values. Not just the Ohms, but also as Grant says the appropriate inductance. Or you can, not necessarily however quite easy, destroy your chassi.

What people don't seem to understand is that a CRT and yoke are two separate devices. The CRT does *not* include *yoke* by default. A CRT is the glass bubble that has the electron beam. The yoke is the magnet that fits *onto the CRT*. Very often these come mounted together and are factory tuned/adjusted with each other.

You can use almost any larger CRT as long as it has the proper pinout for the MS9 neck board, and a pretty similar geometry/radius of 'bubble' (a rounder CRT will give you curved picture upp and down, the sides you can correct with pincussion), but you must be using the correct yoke or at least a compatible yoke.

There may be other small details necessary to correct, like voltage for heater, convergence at the edges... But that is done with manual magnets and metal inlays to create smaller local inductances where need is.
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by PrincessPrinPrin »

uncletom wrote:.. oh? Thank you Prinprin. That's good info. I do remember looking into my old Grundig hm..72 something, years ago before binning it. And I think it was a Videocolo label on there. This was before my great interest in CRTs, sorry to say. But the reason I was throwing the TV was that its picture was varying sporadically between redish and normal color tone. I never attempted any repair.
In my trips at the local household hazardous waste collection center I'm always looking for Videocolor tubes (to make Hantarex and Intervideo monitors) and I've seen quite a few A59EAS00X01's in Grundig TVs. Google search confirms this:

http://obsoletetellyemuseum.blogspot.co ... _2056.html"
uncletom wrote: There may be other small details necessary to correct, like voltage for heater
hmmm.... I wouldn't call heater voltage a small detail as it's in fact a vitally important thing to check before attempting a chassis swap. Even tiny differences in heater voltage can and will shorten a CRT life considerably. I would put a big warning for noobs that may want to try to do this as they must be aware that if they don't take this point into account their CRT is likely to die a few months later.
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uncletom
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by uncletom »

Nice museum you've got there, Prin.

Ok so Grundig TVs use VideoColor CRTs. Then I'd guess very strongly that they're from the Thomson factory in France. So these CRTs should in reality be Thomson CRTs.

I am also guessing that Philips CRTs used in european TVs are made there as well. Alot of TVs made in Europe have variuos brands of CRTs, but most of them made in France. Smaller Philips TVs (up to 20'') have their CRTs made in Brazil, these are by far the best I've tried as they have integrated convergence correction in the neck.

About "Even tiny differences in heater voltage can and will shorten a CRT life considerably"

- That is very iteresting, prin, thank you. Have you ever had a CRT die on you where you could positively confirm that the reason was a too high heater voltage?

About warnings, .. oh come on, there are too many warnings out there already. I hate warnings. Please don't ask me to warn people. That's why I'm such a happy amature, it's so fun not having all that 'responsibility'. hahah.. Half of all my SEGA manuals are just that, warnings, and they take up so much space in my shelves! So I've taken all those warnings out and good bye in the trash. Now I've got nice and slim manuals, without any warnings, with pure and simple information.
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by PrincessPrinPrin »

uncletom wrote:Nice museum you've got there, Prin.

Ok so Grundig TVs use VideoColor CRTs. Then I'd guess very strongly that they're from the Thomson factory in France. So these CRTs should in reality be Thomson CRTs.
I don't think so. They had "made in Italy" written on the label and I doubt that there are any Videocolor CRTs not made in Italy. Videocolor was owned by Thomson but production remained in Italy:

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videocolor"
(it says that in the years 1990-2000 four million CRTs were produced yearly and they were mounted not only on Thomson TVs but also on Saba and Telefunken ones)
uncletom wrote: About "Even tiny differences in heater voltage can and will shorten a CRT life considerably"

- That is very iteresting, prin, thank you. Have you ever had a CRT die on you where you could positively confirm that the reason was a too high heater voltage?
I haven't done such a test personally but I trust TV techs that warned me.

Not much info on these things online:
http://www.jestineyong.com/?p=2083"
uncletom wrote: About warnings, .. oh come on, there are too many warnings out there already. I hate warnings. Please don't ask me to warn people. That's why I'm such a happy amature, it's so fun not having all that 'responsibility'. hahah.. Half of all my SEGA manuals are just that, warnings, and they take up so much space in my shelves! So I've taken all those warnings out and good bye in the trash. Now I've got nice and slim manuals, without any warnings, with pure and simple information.
Yeah, too many warnings and disclaimers are annoying. Still, I think those who set out to swap chassis/tubes should be made aware of that risk (not implying that it must be your responsability to do so)
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uncletom
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by uncletom »

Thank you Prin, for educating me about the Videocolor details and history. It is very interesting. Unfortunately I cannot read italian very well, but I'll be happy to take your word for it. (You are italian?)

About the heaters in the CRT, don't worry too much about it. As i.e the Nanao MS9 gives around 4,5 VDC on the heater, it's not very critical. Nominal should perhaps be 6.3V, but I think that this is only a reference voltage when designing the heater. As long as there is a good glow, not too bright ofcourse, you can rest easy that it is not going to break very soon.

As Mr. Jestine Young, in your link, says: ".. i could say that i only came across one unit of a 14″ Acer Monitor that had an open winding in the filament (heater)" .. and "This is very uncommon and normally the filament is quite robust. "

The critical point seems to be 12V, as Jestine says here:
"Increasing the voltage up to 11 volt seems to be still okay but when i set to 12 volt dc, the filament immediately break."

I'd guess that the max voltage varies between different CRTs, but to worry about the heater breaking prematurely when you have a healthy chassi that gives between 4-8 Volts to the heater, isn't justified.
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uncletom
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by uncletom »

Did I hear someone mention a reference over cap-kit for the Hantarex MTC 9000 chassis?

Well, here's a Friday night present for you. A simplified guide to the MTC 9000 with *very* illustrated content. http://neo.dyndns.tv/technical/Overview_MTC9000_20.pdf
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by Wurstkopp »

Thank you for your work, uncletom. The PDF is truly amazing :clap: :thumbup:.
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by purplec »

yeah would love to see more of these like the Sanwa 29E31S maybe

great stuff
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uncletom
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by uncletom »

Thank you very much...

Just made a little change to it, a 'bugfix' / typo, the C16 is a 16V 1000uF Cap, not a 10V one. Sorry aobut that.

Oh, if you see any errors please let me know.

AND another bugfix: C201, a 22uF 50V cap added to the neckboard. Seems that little sucker was hiding under some wires!

Do we all know that Randy has made a flow-chart on the MTC 9000? http://gc339.free.fr/NoticesMoniteurs/H ... wChart.jpg
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uncletom
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by uncletom »

I just want to make you all aware that there are several different MTC 9000 PCB layouts, both for neck, and main boards. I'm currently toying with a model MZ 07 here.

By the way, anybody know where to buy these green plastic connectors for Hantarex monitors, please?
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by PrincessPrinPrin »

uncletom wrote: By the way, anybody know where to buy these green plastic connectors for Hantarex monitors, please?
Not sure if you can order easily from Farnell in Sweden (in Italy they require a VAT number):

http://se.farnell.com/te-connectivity-a ... tt=8693021"
http://se.farnell.com/te-connectivity-a ... tt=8693072"
http://se.farnell.com/te-connectivity-a ... tt=8693064"

Plenty of other sources as it's a very common connector. I wish I could find a source (or even identify) for the remote board connector, that's really difficult...

As for MTC9000 I stay away from that chassis. There's an area with high wattage resistors that gets so hot it bakes the PCB which eventually becomes brittle and breaks easily. They had to put a fan to minimize the problem but it remains a badly designed chassis.
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uncletom
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by uncletom »

Thank you very much, Prin. That's super. I see that they have both 4-pin and the 2-pin as well as the 6-pin. And it's not too expensive.
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by darkcrono »

Nekro Up because this IS relevant to my interests, i have to swap one ir maybe two tubes, and all the links in this thread are dead, any other source of info, has someone saved the content of the links?
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by Shadolf »

About the GRUNDIG TV's and what tubes they use. I have two 29" Grundig TV's and these are perfect TV's. Both VGA capable. One kurved and one flat tube and both are TOSHIBA tubes. And as I know, Toshiba tubes are one of the best out there, right!? So don't trash you Grundig TV's!
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by Shadolf »

uncletom wrote:Here's what I've been doing with some stuff from my local garbage disposal. Unfortunately a 29'' CRT is very hard to come by here in Sweden so I've collected a few 28'' instead to test with some MS9 left-overs, to rebuild a *new* 28'' NANAO MS9 monitor.

http://neo.dyndns.tv/technical/Nanao_MS ... CRT_nokia/
I see there were some nice tutorials around but the links doesn't work anymore. Any chance you update these or put the tuts in the wiki or something?!
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uncletom
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by uncletom »

It was not ment as a tutorial, it was just a documented experiment I did to find out what tubes would work.

Here's that one:

http://www.albyhus2.se/_eget/monitors/N ... CRT_nokia/

I'm cannot promise that it will stay on that server forever, but feel free to put this anywhere you like for public viewing.
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Re: NANAO MS9 CRT replacing

Post by trev1976 »

Loads of nice info there.
Check out my "1cc" YouTube Channel
YouTube
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