Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Everything Emulator related
Post Reply
User avatar
Ramza
Posts: 96
Joined: September 3rd, 2008, 1:54 pm
Location: Germany

Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by Ramza »

Hi!

Since the battery in my 3rd Strike cart died recently, I thought I'd give emulation a shot. Friend of mine build me an awesome cabpc with Hyperspin and Mame running smoothly via Soft15khz. Video is perfect with mame, can't see any difference to my CPS2/3 boards. However, the input lag is pretty annoying, so I also tested FBA & CPS3emulator. Found them to be way better than mame, but when I configure them for arcade resolution (384 x 224), they crash. Seems that Soft15khz is not compatible with this resolution... however Mame seems to run it with no problems. Any ideas for this? I want perfect graphics and gameplay... :think:
User avatar
CPS2
Street Fighter
Posts: 1993
Joined: August 19th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by CPS2 »

Ramza wrote:Hi!

Since the battery in my 3rd Strike cart died recently, I thought I'd give emulation a shot. Friend of mine build me an awesome cabpc with Hyperspin and Mame running smoothly via Soft15khz. Video is perfect with mame, can't see any difference to my CPS2/3 boards. However, the input lag is pretty annoying, so I also tested FBA & CPS3emulator. Found them to be way better than mame, but when I configure them for arcade resolution (384 x 224), they crash. Seems that Soft15khz is not compatible with this resolution... however Mame seems to run it with no problems. Any ideas for this? I want perfect graphics and gameplay... :think:
ArcadeVGA is the only way to get "perfect" video (IMO). You'll need a cthulhu (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=162026) for lag free gaming on a cab.

You'll never hit 384 x 224 through windows, but the ArcadeVGA gets V V close (I can't tell the difference for CPS2 stuff)

TBH the real deal is the only way to get perfection. Or try GGPO for some awesome 2p action :awe:
tinchen3112
Posts: 110
Joined: August 21st, 2008, 7:49 am
Location: Germany

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by tinchen3112 »

hi flo,
mame use the closest available resolution (if your mame.ini is configured correctly) compared to the original when you start a game.

you can try to add a entry in your custom15khz.txt in your soft15k folder and reinstall it
in this case:
Modeline '384x224@59,898' 8 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync

the avga is not better for this, it has less resolutions and with the soft15k it is much easier to add or remove one.
br
frank
User avatar
Ramza
Posts: 96
Joined: September 3rd, 2008, 1:54 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by Ramza »

CPS2 wrote:You'll need a cthulhu (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=162026) for lag free gaming on a cab.
You mean the input lag caused by usb? My sticks are connected to the Jammasd via PS/2, so there should be no lag.
tinchen3112 wrote:hi flo,
mame use the closest available resolution (if your mame.ini is configured correctly) compared to the original when you start a game.

you can try to add a entry in your custom15khz.txt in your soft15k folder and reinstall it
in this case:
Modeline '384x224@59,898' 8 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync

the avga is not better for this, it has less resolutions and with the soft15k it is much easier to add or remove one.
br
frank
Thanks! Will try this when I get back home.

If only there would be a Mame version without input lag at all... :problem:
User avatar
CPS2
Street Fighter
Posts: 1993
Joined: August 19th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by CPS2 »

Ramza wrote:
CPS2 wrote:You'll need a cthulhu (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=162026) for lag free gaming on a cab.
You mean the input lag caused by usb? My sticks are connected to the Jammasd via PS/2, so there should be no lag.
PS/2 uses a keyboard emulator. I find that USB feels less laggy. Most people will defend mame to the hilt and insist that no input lag exists. IMO it does, esp when playing SF.
User avatar
Chi
Fire Extinguisher
Posts: 904
Joined: August 18th, 2008, 12:55 am
Location: Croydon, UK
Initials: CHI

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by Chi »

CPS2 wrote:Most people will defend mame to the hilt and insist that no input lag exists. IMO it does, esp when playing SF.
It's not in your opinion - it is fact. MAME has input lag on all games (and some have worse lag than others).

Whether or not most people can notice it is a different matter, but I do with Third Strike, Rhythm games (e.g. Beatmania) and Armed Police Batrider.
"TO THE untrained eye Christian Cooper might have been stamping out a small fire " - The Times, 7th Feb, 2004
User avatar
Ramza
Posts: 96
Joined: September 3rd, 2008, 1:54 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by Ramza »

CPS2 wrote:PS/2 uses a keyboard emulator. I find that USB feels less laggy.
First time I hear that - every other thread says that USB will give you at least a couple of frames lag, which can by reduced by using HIDUSBF. That's why I went for PS/2.
Most people will defend mame to the hilt and insist that no input lag exists. IMO it does, esp when playing SF.
When you are really used to a game (in my case 3rd Strike), you will notice the lag instandly. However, FBA seems to have only 1 frame of input lag and elsemis CPS3 emulator none at all. Too bad the scaled video output of those emulators isn't as nice as mame.
User avatar
markedkiller78
Pony fucker
Posts: 7580
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 6:53 pm
Location: Glasgow
eBay: markedkiller78
Initials: MAL

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by markedkiller78 »

I’d go down the GGPO route. You can apply decent enough scanlines, use HIDUSBF to cut down on input lag (I think It’s 1 frame now) & you’ve got real competition online :awe:

If you’ve played the game a lot, you will instantly notice the difference, but it’s better than anything else out there imo, well apart form the real thing :awe:

None of the raizing games are emulated properly. APB & Garrega are the only one’s I’ve played in mame, but they are well out. Progear is good, so maybe Dimahoo is too? Anywas this is going OT.

GGPO is what I say :awe:
Image
User avatar
CPS2
Street Fighter
Posts: 1993
Joined: August 19th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by CPS2 »

I agree with Mark, stick with GGPO (FBA) for fighting games, get a cthulhu, no need for the hidusbf on this baby - it may be usb, but is designed with fighting games in mind and has no "noticeable" lag. :D
User avatar
Ultron
Please Continue...
Posts: 280
Joined: February 2nd, 2009, 11:03 pm
Location: London

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by Ultron »

All I know that might help is in CPS3Emulator you can set the "video filter" to "interlaced output".
Maybe you could try setting the res to double or quadruple the resolution (I use quadruple on my desktop PC cause it won't do double, and double or quadruple is required to display scanlines correctly). Then with the interlaced output switched on maybe then it will work on your arcade monitor.

I'm not sure what the interlaced output is for so I am only guessing it's for outputting to an arcade monitor. Could someone explain it? :)

I find the CPS3Emulator to be better than the (FBA) emulator that comes with GGPO, but my PC isn't very powerful.

For CPS2 I suggest Kawaks rather than the emulator that comes with GGPO, cause the GGPO one has noticable input lag (just try lots of fast light punches as Guy in SFA3). Or there is MAME, hmmm... I think I just use Kawaks (when I'm not playing online on GGPO) cause it runs better on low spec PCs like mine than MAME does. Oh yeah, that and you can turn the aweful SFA3 announcer off in Kawaks. IIRC when I used to play SFA3 on MAME sometimes, I noticed the controls seemed more responsive than in Kawaks - so in other words Kawaks has more input lag than MAME. However, Kawaks has interframe blending which makes all the difference, at least on a desktop PC. On an arcade monitor I think that wouldn't be needed as I think the point of it is to simulate how an arcade monitor displays things :)

Now I'm going to try SFA3 on MAME again to see what it's like again :)
User avatar
Xenepp

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by Xenepp »

CPS2 wrote:
ArcadeVGA is the only way to get "perfect" video (IMO). You'll need a cthulhu (http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=162026) for lag free gaming on a cab.

You'll never hit 384 x 224 through windows, but the ArcadeVGA gets V V close (I can't tell the difference for CPS2 stuff)
ArcadeVGA is not much better than custom15khz but both will give you a pixel perfect output for every game when set up correctly. It's a myth that you can't get it looking 100% through MAME, mostly created by those who have not setup their MAME.INI correctly.

Same with USB, if you use a cheap crappy pad then you will get lag if the design is shoddy, most good quality USB devices are just fine and should present little to no lag. Keyboard hacks running on the PS/2 port btw are usually more reliable, though harder to set up.

Joel
User avatar
Ramza
Posts: 96
Joined: September 3rd, 2008, 1:54 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by Ramza »

Ultron wrote:All I know that might help is in CPS3Emulator you can set the "video filter" to "interlaced output".
Maybe you could try setting the res to double or quadruple the resolution (I use quadruple on my desktop PC cause it won't do double, and double or quadruple is required to display scanlines correctly). Then with the interlaced output switched on maybe then it will work on your arcade monitor
Picture quality is actually better when set to interlaced output, didn't expect that. Still, I had some annoying v-snyc issues with it. Now I have set the custom resolution to 384x288, which looks pretty close to the original (384x224).
tinchen3112 wrote:you can try to add a entry in your custom15khz.txt in your soft15k folder and reinstall it
in this case:
Modeline '384x224@59,898' 8 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync

the avga is not better for this, it has less resolutions and with the soft15k it is much easier to add or remove one.
Hi Frank,

I just added your resolution to the custom15khz.txt file, but it didn't work. I didn't reinstall soft15k though (... never change a running system), is it mandatory?
User avatar
Ultron
Please Continue...
Posts: 280
Joined: February 2nd, 2009, 11:03 pm
Location: London

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by Ultron »

Ramza wrote:Picture quality is actually better when set to interlaced output, didn't expect that. Still, I had some annoying v-snyc issues with it. Now I have set the custom resolution to 384x288, which looks pretty close to the original (384x224).
Have you tried turning vsync off?
To do this, go to Display Properties/Settings/Advanced/Manufacturer and Name of your graphics card/OpenGL Settings/ and turn Vertical Sync to Off then click Apply, OK, OK.

"Off by default" or "Always off".
User avatar
Xenepp

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by Xenepp »

Hi Frank,

I just added your resolution to the custom15khz.txt file, but it didn't work. I didn't reinstall soft15k though (... never change a running system), is it mandatory?
You have to uninstall, restart, then reinstall 15khz + custom for it to work. It won't break anything, just make sure you have a VGA monitor on hand.

Joel
User avatar
Ramza
Posts: 96
Joined: September 3rd, 2008, 1:54 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by Ramza »

Xenepp wrote:
Hi Frank,

I just added your resolution to the custom15khz.txt file, but it didn't work. I didn't reinstall soft15k though (... never change a running system), is it mandatory?
You have to uninstall, restart, then reinstall 15khz + custom for it to work. It won't break anything, just make sure you have a VGA monitor on hand.

Joel
Thanx!

I just had a look into the whole custom res math... seems like most custom resolutions run with 60 or 59,898 hz. But AFAIK CPS3 runs with 59,583393hz. Would this make any difference? Applying the forumlas explained here, I would get this modeline:
'384x224@59,583393' 7,62 384 431 479 526 224 226 228 243 -hsync -vsync
User avatar
stellarola
Posts: 54
Joined: January 3rd, 2014, 9:30 pm
Location:
eBay: stellarola1
Initials: BEN
Contact:

Re: Best way to emulate CPS2 & 3

Post by stellarola »

Sorry to resurrect an older thread. I was in the middle of setting up Soft15khz and CRT_Emu_Driver and my mind was boggled over the whole 224p issue. Neo Geo and CPS2/3 run at 224p and I thought I would need to somehow create a new modeline to output that resolution. Thankfully I came across this page on Ultimarc and it clarified the resolution conundrum.
The resolutions which show no vertical rate in the table have an arbitrary rate which is the result of scanning the required number of lines at 15Khz. They are mostly around 50Hz. Arcade monitor timings prevent these resolutions from being displayed at 60Hz.
Note about 224-line resolutions (eg Neo-Geo): The list does not contain any 224-line resolutions for the reason that is explained fully in the Arcade Monitor FAQ, basically arcade monitors cannot display these modes without top/bottom borders (otherwise the vertical refresh rate would be > 60Hz), so using a 240 line mode instead gives exactly the same result. (ie MAME inserts the borders instead of the resolution mode).
The ArcadeVGA card allows your PC to exactly duplicate the original game-boards video logic. To do this the resolution must match that of the original game, or be slightly higher (giving small borders). For the best gaming experience, you can over-ride MAME's choice of resolution. MAME often does not pick the best resolution. Here are some pointers: Choose a resolution that has an H and V value equal or slightly greater than the original game unless there is a resolution that is only a few pixels less, in which case choose this one. For vertical games on a horizontal monitor, choose a horizontal resolution which is about double the game resolution as you want side borders. The resolutions of 352 Horizontal are especially suited to vertical games. You will find that vertical resolutions of 240 and 200 or less are indistinguishable from each other. The reason for this is given on the arcade monitor FAQ page. A few games with a vertical resolution of between 301 and 450 will need Hardware Stretching because arcade monitors cannot display these resolutions, see arcade monitor FAQ for the reason.
In short, 240p should offer the same output as MAME tries to create space where there is none. Think along the same idea of watching a 4:3 movie on a 16:9 screen. The black bars are there to accommodate the picture so stretching isn't necessary. So if you can only output 384x240, that's ok.

-Stell
Post Reply