MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

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Lettuce
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby Lettuce » June 19th, 2011, 3:34 pm

Have any of you guys been playing around with the new HLSL option in the latest version of mame that introduces scanlines?? Also i might get myself one of those SLG3000 scanline generator devices they look the ****.........

http://www.arcadeforge.de/?page_id=745
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby pubjoe » June 20th, 2011, 11:20 am

I haven't tried it yet but it looks great. Just what mame needs. An overlay alone was never going to be enough to be honest.

cools wrote:Until we get high enough resolution LCDs to simulate a true CRT shadowmask...

It's funny, I was thinking about this the other day and how this is never going to happen. Just like in print, there's not much reason for detail to get any sharper beyond about 300dpi. But 300dpi just isn't enough to anywhere near simulate a true shadowmask. Over 300dpi is pretty much humanly indistinguishable for text, shapes and photos, but fine repeat patterns will still suffer visible moire type problems unless you go a hell of a lot higher. But we never will as it'll just never be worthwhile.

The best thing is to create an effect with the screens available today. They're already less than one factor away from 300dpi, so they're not going to suddenly get that much more capable. Overlays alone just aren't enough. We need help from dynamic luminous pixel effects (and stuff). :think:

HLSL looks excellent. :awe:
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby cools » June 20th, 2011, 11:31 am

It does, and it's vastly superior to what was achievable beforehand. My interest in MAME has waned significantly though so I really cannot be bothered playing around with it. Framerate judder/tearing/lag differences from running on a PCB are impossible to get away from.
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby Lettuce » June 20th, 2011, 10:09 pm

pubjoe wrote:I haven't tried it yet but it looks great. Just what mame needs. An overlay alone was never going to be enough to be honest.

cools wrote:Until we get high enough resolution LCDs to simulate a true CRT shadowmask...

It's funny, I was thinking about this the other day and how this is never going to happen. Just like in print, there's not much reason for detail to get any sharper beyond about 300dpi. But 300dpi just isn't enough to anywhere near simulate a true shadowmask. Over 300dpi is pretty much humanly indistinguishable for text, shapes and photos, but fine repeat patterns will still suffer visible moire type problems unless you go a hell of a lot higher. But we never will as it'll just never be worthwhile.

The best thing is to create an effect with the screens available today. They're already less than one factor away from 300dpi, so they're not going to suddenly get that much more capable. Overlays alone just aren't enough. We need help from dynamic luminous pixel effects (and stuff). :think:

HLSL looks excellent. :awe:


Anyone have any settings to share for a decent HLSL setup??

cools wrote:It does, and it's vastly superior to what was achievable beforehand. My interest in MAME has waned significantly though so I really cannot be bothered playing around with it. Framerate judder/tearing/lag differences from running on a PCB are impossible to get away from.


Have you tried GroovyMame?, it address 99% of the problems you listed cools!
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby pubjoe » June 20th, 2011, 10:12 pm

HLSL in action:

Nicked from Gardhul on this thread (where he also lists his settings, Lettuce).

Click for full size...

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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby fagin » June 25th, 2011, 11:09 am

That filter setting is aweful. Apart from the pincushion / curvature / covergence (which I can't understand for the life of me why you would want to emulate), if my monitor looked that bad with the other settings I would smash it to bits!!!

IMO some people haven't got a clue what the video image should look like on a CRT.
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby cools » June 25th, 2011, 11:11 am

Lettuce wrote:
cools wrote:It does, and it's vastly superior to what was achievable beforehand. My interest in MAME has waned significantly though so I really cannot be bothered playing around with it. Framerate judder/tearing/lag differences from running on a PCB are impossible to get away from.


Have you tried GroovyMame?, it address 99% of the problems you listed cools!


It's that 1% that is so significant :)
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby anarkhy » June 29th, 2011, 11:30 pm

fagin wrote:That filter setting is aweful. Apart from the pincushion / curvature / covergence (which I can't understand for the life of me why you would want to emulate), if my monitor looked that bad with the other settings I would smash it to bits!!!

IMO some people haven't got a clue what the video image should look like on a CRT.


that curvature was present on older low end arcade machines. yes they sucked at the time.
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby pubjoe » June 30th, 2011, 4:06 pm

Graphics were designed for the monitors of the time though. Some games look terrible when a perfectly crisp display exposes all elements of artwork that previously were not visible - such as gradients created with a small palette, or single pixel lights which had a nice glowing effect on the old "low-end" CRTs, or pixel outlines that bleed into the colour next door. Graphic designers were very aware of the quirks of the displays that would display their artwork. Hence why I much prefer to play the old games on a CRT and I am all for the effort to emulate that on the better screens of today. Especially as CRTs are dying out quickly.

R-Type springs to mind as a clear example. Especially when the level 1 space station background fades in. It looks **** on a modern clear monitor.

On the other hand. A game like Street Fighter Alpha 3, even though it's still low res, with it's bold sprites, I personally really like the look of the graphics nude and unfiltered on a nice crisp modern screen.

...Plus there's always the nostalgia factor.
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby pubjoe » June 30th, 2011, 5:55 pm

ERm. Not quite sure why I suddenly decided to say all that earlier. :?
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby niconiconico » August 27th, 2011, 5:09 am

Anyone knows what the f*** is going on with my display after enabling hlsl?

Image
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby niconiconico » August 27th, 2011, 9:07 am

And in waiting for an answer to the above, let me introduce the effect i am using, drawn with Paint and PicPick:

An example here: http://i40.servimg.com/u/f40/11/20/39/11/image_14.jpg

Due to a poor upload you can see some "fake" brown midlines, which are totally out of the real result, and i was unable to upload more screens (dunno why :?).

The effect is shown in 1920x1080, with brightness at 0.900 and contrast at 1.000, and is attached in this post.
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Scanlines_ILAG_27082011.png
Scanlines_ILAG_27082011.png (105 Bytes) Viewed 4796 times
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby Lettuce » September 3rd, 2011, 3:32 pm

Im unable to see the attached file niconiconico??
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby niconiconico » September 4th, 2011, 1:06 pm

The smaaaaaaaaaaaaaall dot you see, is the image (but when you zoom into it you will see it clearly) :)

Right click on it > view image > right click > save as.
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby spmbx » October 2nd, 2011, 7:30 pm

...
Last edited by spmbx on October 19th, 2016, 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby Beaps » December 5th, 2011, 1:15 am

What if you have an LCD screen that you have rotated, any ideas of what I could use for that?
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby davewellington » December 5th, 2011, 1:22 am

What's the issue?
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby Korszca » December 5th, 2011, 1:24 am

To get scanlines? The same thing you'd use if your LCD wasn't rotated.
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby Beaps » December 5th, 2011, 1:38 am

It don't look quite right tho imo
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Re: MAME scanline/shadowmask simulation

Postby davewellington » December 5th, 2011, 1:39 am

err, so what's the issue? Are you using HLSL?
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