Better MAME Parents

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Better MAME Parents

Postby cools » October 17th, 2014, 2:19 pm

Been thinking of doing this for a while. No idea if it'd ever make it into baseline, but I would love a list of "definitive" versions of arcade game releases. The normal MAME parent set selection (English, final version) is good but there are arguments for alternative criteria (always first release in country of origin, etc), and I don't believe a single criteria fits all - far better to hand pick the better versions.

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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby pubjoe » October 17th, 2014, 2:33 pm

Good idea.

I spent quite a while on this and have an amended gamelist somewhere. I considered it a personal taste thing, but I imagine most of us here would probably agree on similar.

It became one of my annoyances with setting up mame. Uncluttered list vs Compete list vs Spending the time setting up the best of both.

cools wrote:I don't believe a single criteria fits all

That's the thing. Mame suits unbiased consistancy so that's fine, but a hand picked AO dat file would be a nice option.
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby LEGENOARYNINLIA » October 17th, 2014, 2:36 pm

Can I ask why pick that version of 3S over the Japanese version? I can't stand the "translated" versions of SF games.

EDIT: Now with the CPS2 multicart in the horizon, maybe it is time for a proper translation of SSF2X?
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby cools » October 17th, 2014, 2:49 pm

pubjoe wrote:Good idea.

I spent quite a while on this and have an amended gamelist somewhere. I considered it a personal taste thing, but I imagine most of us here would probably agree on similar.

It became one of my annoyances with setting up mame. Uncluttered list vs Compete list vs Spending the time setting up the best of both.

cools wrote:I don't believe a single criteria fits all

That's the thing. Mame suits unbiased consistancy so that's fine, but a hand picked AO dat file would be a nice option.


I got to the last few entries in the starting point and then realised I should be providing evidence for the choice, I'll go back and do URLs for more games at another time.

TheRedKnight wrote:Can I ask why pick that version of 3S over the Japanese version? I can't stand the "translated" versions of SF games.


Personal preference, I'll pick an English version if there's no technical reason to choose otherwise. I couldn't find anyone giving a reason that the English was different to play to the Japanese, whereas it's easy to find documentation on the revision differences. If there's a particularly irritating sound sample (Cosmo Gang the Video springs to mind), maybe the other one needs selecting. Reminds me, ssf2xj needs adding.

Is there a difference in game/audio etc or is it merely the text?
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby pubjoe » October 17th, 2014, 3:06 pm

Street Fighter 2X I believe I added in addition to Turbo. This is one of the dawning factors of me realising that I'm never going to be happy. With some games it's nice to have a variation box set. ...Actually a frontend script that jumps you to the same position on the full list at the press of a button would make do as a boxset function. It would miss games with completely different region names though.

Speaking of names. The first native release being the parent does make sense. Though a strong argument against it is 'Puck Man'.
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby cools » October 17th, 2014, 3:09 pm

Origin release is Haze's preference from the looks of it, it's a saner one than the current simply in straightforward software development terms. Makes quite a lot of games broken though.
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby LEGENOARYNINLIA » October 17th, 2014, 3:18 pm

The Japanese version of Robocop 2 has an intro level not found in the other builds. And it's actually a quite nice game.

cools wrote:Is there a difference in game/audio etc or is it merely the text?


I'm not a fan of 3S so I don't know.

BUT from my experience the translation on every SF game has been atrocious. For example in SSF2X the win quotes are opponent specific, but not in ST. In the Zero series Gouki speaks, but in Alpha he just goes ".................." so you could say that they are two different characters, if the gameplay element is not taken into account. Those are just the two harshest examples. Also, the whole Sheng Long thing. :palm:

I know most people don't really care but Capcom USA and SNK USA basically raped the story elements of the games. My personal preference is that I'd rather see Japanese I can't understand than bad grammar and stupidity.
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby cools » October 17th, 2014, 3:34 pm

Robocop 2 is an interesting one, the Japan is a later revision to the export.
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby pubjoe » October 17th, 2014, 3:50 pm

TheRedKnight wrote:BUT from my experience the translation on every SF game has been atrocious. For example in SSF2X the win quotes are opponent specific, but not in ST. In the Zero series Gouki speaks, but in Alpha he just goes ".................." so you could say that they are two different characters, if the gameplay element is not taken into account. Those are just the two harshest examples. Also, the whole Sheng Long thing. :palm:

I know most people don't really care but Capcom USA and SNK USA basically raped the story elements of the games. My personal preference is that I'd rather see Japanese I can't understand than bad grammar and stupidity.

Community translation time ...has this not been started already? It would nicely complement a CPS2 flash cart.

Now where's that Camdic app? :lol:
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby LEGENOARYNINLIA » October 17th, 2014, 4:28 pm

The only reason why I decided to get the multicart is just to possibly be able to play a proper translation of SSF2X and other SF games in the future. :lol:
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby cools » October 17th, 2014, 5:03 pm

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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby pubjoe » October 17th, 2014, 5:25 pm

For Donkey Kong I prefer the US version for it's level sequence. Plus it makes me feel like I'm Billy Mitchel.
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby LEGENOARYNINLIA » October 17th, 2014, 5:41 pm

Reading The Cutting Room Floor always helps me fall asleep. :awe:

This reminds me that there is a list that I was working on and should resume doing so... :think:
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby dgame » October 17th, 2014, 7:38 pm

This is a list of notable MAME clone sets from BYOAC:

Code: Select all

Game                           Parent           Clone         Notes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ace Attack                     ace (orig game)  aceattack     Actually a Volleyball game, clone of Ace Attacker? (no parent)
Ajax                           ajax             typhoon       This version has a different stage order and possible additional level
Bad Dudes vs. Dragonninja      baddudes         drgninja      Japanese version has different background music and different ending
Cabal                          cabal            cabalus       Trackball version
Captain America Avengers       captaven         captavenu     US version, not really that different
Combat School                  combatsc         combatsct     Trackball version
Cyberball                      cyberbal         cyberbal2p    2 player version
D. D. Crew                     ddcrew           ddcrew2       2 player version
Defend the Terra Attack        redufo           exodus        Slightly improved graphics
DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou          ddp3             ddp3blk       Black label edition is more playable and allows continues
Donkey Kong II                 dkong            dkongx11      Donkey Kong 2 hack, new levels etc
Eliminator (4 players)         elim2            elim4         4 player mode, only 4 player vector game ever made
Galaga                         galaga           galagamf      Fast shoot
Gauntlet II                    gaunt2           gaunt22p      2 player version
Gauntlet                       gauntlet         gauntlet2p    2 player version
Gigas                          gigandes         gigasb        Actually a breakout game, clone of gigas? (not listed as parent)
Golden Tee 2000 Tournament     gt2k (regular)   gt2kt500      Tourney edition, changes?
Ikari III - The Rescue         ikari3           ikari3nr      Joystick hack
Ikari Warriors                 ikari            ikarijpb      Joystick hack
Joust                          joust            joustr        Pterodactyl scoring bug
King of Fighters 2005 Anniv    kof2002          kf2k5uni      Anniversary edition, changed graphics, music, characters
Land Maker                     landmakr         landmakrp     English translation
Main Event                     mainevt          mainevt2p     2 player version
Major Havoc                    mhavoc           mhavocrv      Return to Vax hack, easier then original, extra levels, minor play changes
Marvel Vs. Capcom: COSH        mvsc             mvscj         Japanese version gives you an extra character
Ms. Pac Man                    mspacman         mspacmnf      Speedup hack
NBA Maximum Hangtime           nbahangt         nbamht1       Updated roster, minor play changes
Night Slasher                  nslasher         nslasherj     Japanese version is uncensored - red blood and some different and extended scenes
Pacman                         puckman          pacman        Original pacman game
Pacman                         puckman          pacmanf       Speedup hack
Peggle                         peggle           pegglet       Trackball version
Pirate Pete                    junglek          piratpet      Pirate-based version of Jungle Hunt
Qix II Tournament              qix              qix2          Enhanced version with different colors and bonus features
Rampart                        rampart          rampart2p     Joystick version
Robocop 2                      robocop2         robocop2j     Japanese version has extra playable intro level and extra scene at the end
Salamander (Lifeforce)         salamand         lifefrcej     Enhanced US version (lifefrce) and listed Japanese version have new graphics and improved gameplay
Shadow Warriors (Ninja Gaiden) shadoww          gaiden        US (gaiden) and Japan (ryukendn) versions have different music and fighting/difficulty diffs
Simpsons                       simpsons         simpsons2p    2 player version
Snow Bros. 3 - Magical  Adv    snowbros         snowbros3     Third in the series, seems to be a clone of the first game
Sunset Riders                  ssriders         ssridersubc   2 player version
Super Bubble Bobble            bublbobl         sboblboa      Super Bubble Bobble, minor changes
Street Fighter II: Hyper Fight sf2hf            sf2hfj        Turbo version incorporates unofficial hacks and is supposed to be the best in the series
Tempest Tubes                  tempest          temptube      Version of Tempest with different shapes
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles   tmnt             tmnt2po       2 player version
Undercover Cops                uccops           uccopsar      Alpha Renewal version has better graphics and additional character moves
Vendetta                       vendetta         vendetta2p    2 player version.  Also Asian versions have bikers and dogs that grab, hump, and lick the player...
Zerowing                       zerowing         zerowing2     2 player version instead of 1
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby LEGENOARYNINLIA » October 17th, 2014, 7:52 pm

Playing a hack of KOF2002? Really? No. Just no. :problem:

And isn't it Marvel Super Heroes VS Street Fighter where the JP version has an extra character (Norimaru) and not Marvel VS Capcom?
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby cools » October 17th, 2014, 8:01 pm

That's a great help, thanks dgame.

(No boots will be making the better list ;))
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby cools » October 17th, 2014, 9:00 pm

TheRedKnight wrote:I'm not a fan of 3S so I don't know.

BUT from my experience the translation on every SF game has been atrocious. For example in SSF2X the win quotes are opponent specific, but not in ST. In the Zero series Gouki speaks, but in Alpha he just goes ".................." so you could say that they are two different characters, if the gameplay element is not taken into account. Those are just the two harshest examples. Also, the whole Sheng Long thing. :palm:

I know most people don't really care but Capcom USA and SNK USA basically raped the story elements of the games. My personal preference is that I'd rather see Japanese I can't understand than bad grammar and stupidity.


3rd Strike seems to have escaped being terrible, albeit I've not hammered it a lot - I've checked the basics out and it looks like a straightforward translation. I am tempted to select the USA version rather than the Euro though - from what I gather it's the one that was used for 3rd Strike Online. English stays though unless there's a clear reason for Japanese - the supers/service menu are translated for one.
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby cools » October 17th, 2014, 10:05 pm

Updated :D
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby emphatic » October 18th, 2014, 12:26 am

The Japanese version of Rygar, Argus No Senshi (first revision?) has better scoring possibilities in a way (more stars) and a hidden 1UP on stage 14. The English version has more "?" powerups (it can be turned into all sorts of items when hit). The old Japanese rom has a few bugs though, but they are just charming unless you're an operator.
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Re: Better MAME Parents

Postby idc » October 18th, 2014, 1:33 am

TheRedKnight wrote:And isn't it Marvel Super Heroes VS Street Fighter where the JP version has an extra character (Norimaru) and not Marvel VS Capcom?

Yes, although you can enable him in any version: viewtopic.php?p=237555#p237555

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